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Jiren runs a comic gauntlet
Started by: Ursumeles

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950Killer
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WTF is this?!

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 10:03 AM
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Ursumeles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

The problem with Beerus here are his feats. While Yes it's obvious he could destroy Worlds. Galactus could too.

I mean, Beerus can destroy Universes, and not only planets.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 10:28 AM
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950Killer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I mean, Beerus can destroy Universes, and not only planets.


When did Beerus destroyed a Universe?

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 12:35 PM
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cdtm
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Never.

Superman has more claim as a universe buster then Beerus does.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 12:40 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes. smile

In the most recent display of hakai, (or hakai energy) in DBS Episode 95, we see Golden Frieza huffing and puffing after harnessing the bit of Destruction energy that Sidra afforded the assassin. Base Goku was completely incapable of escaping the energy ball. Beerus proceeds to literally blow away the Destruction ball with no effort whatsoever. Some things to note:

1. Golden Frieza is on par with SSJB Goku.

2. SSJB Goku as of episode 95 is FAR more powerful than SSG Goku, who is a universe buster.

3. Beerus also threatened to hakai Goku in episode 78.

4. In one of the earlier episodes, Whis states, "ghost or not, there is nothing Beerus-Sama can't destroy." While obviously hyperbole, it's pretty clear this applies to the likes of Goku.

5. Although the manga and anime are seperate, it's worth noting that SSJB Goku, who's far weaker than Beerus, was able to use the hakai technique to erase Merged Zamasu, who's far more powerful than SSJG Goku, who again is a universe buster.

Galactus, while immensely powerful and durable, isn't exactly invincible. He was briefly put out of commission by an all-out attack from Odin, got completely oneshotted by 3 merged Celestials (Galactus in this instance was amped beyond his usual levels, too,) and is usually implied to be casually multi-galaxy at best.

Beerus, on the other hand, has multiple casually universal feats, such as:

1. While suppressed, his fists colliding with SSJG Goku's were sending out shockwaves capable of incinerating the entire universe.

2. While suppressed, his ki blast vs Goku's kamehameha were doing the same.

3. Later in the fight, a super-dense energy ball capable of annihilating the entire universe is formed, and Beerus and Goku are constantly powering up and pushing this energy ball towards each other. Beerus proceeds to casually nullify the universe-busting ball.

4. Vados states that Beerus and Champa fighting would mean "annihilation" for universes 6 and 7.

5. In the manga, there is a flashback to Beerus and Champa fighting, and they both casually raise ki balls to attack each other that would have destroyed the universe. Whis and Vados knock them out.

6. In the baseball episode, it's shown that Beerus and Champa would have destroyed the universe were it not for Whis and Vados stopping them.

So, yeah. Hakai. smile


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 12:44 PM
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950Killer
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Assumptions/Character Statements < Actual feats.

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 01:22 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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So Beyonder never destroyed a single universe? Galactus and Odin blowing up galaxies is just a cruel joke? We never see any of that happen, after all.

Fact of the matter is, if Elder Kai, Whis, the narrator, and Goku/Beerus are claiming they were throwing around universal energies, they were probably throwing around universal energies.

And we visibly see the universe-busting waves reach the Kaioshin Realm, which is outside of the mortal universe. Suppressed Beerus is universal.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:42 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I mean, Beerus can destroy Universes, and not only planets.


He destroyed a Galaxy once if am not mistaken.

Beerus has never seen doing such a thing...

Also let's not remember that Galactus still possesses the Ultimate Nullifier....So..


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:42 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So Beyonder never destroyed a single universe? Galactus and Odin blowing up galaxies is just a cruel joke? We never see any of that happen, after all.

Fact of the matter is, if Elder Kai, Whis, the narrator, and Goku/Beerus are claiming they were throwing around universal energies, they were probably throwing around universal energies.

And we visibly see the universe-busting waves reach the Kaioshin Realm, which is outside of the mortal universe. Suppressed Beerus is universal.


Now the thing is this.

How big is DB's universe?

Because we can't really compare one universe with another just like that...

DB's universe can be as big as one of Marvel's galaxies.

Just like we see it with DB's Multiverse...DB's multiverse is comprised of 13 universes..whereas Marvel's and DC's universe is comprised of 100s if not 1000's of universes and realities.

Galactus is considered a Universal force too. Galactus could destroy a universe.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:45 PM
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Ursumeles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He destroyed a Galaxy once if am not mistaken.

Beerus has never seen doing such a thing...

Also let's not remember that Galactus still possesses the Ultimate Nullifier....So..
This Galactus without the UN.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:50 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Now the thing is this.

How big is DB's universe?

Because we can't really compare one universe with another just like that...

DB's universe can be as big as one of Marvel's galaxies.

Just like we see it with DB's Multiverse...DB's multiverse is comprised of 13 universes..whereas Marvel's and DC's universe is comprised of 100s if not 1000's of universes and realities.

Galactus is considered a Universal force too. Galactus could destroy a universe.

the DBS mortal universe has billions upon billions of galaxies, just like a marvel universe . DB has 12 universes, along with the world of void, Zen-Ohs realm, and countless alternate dimensions. It's not as big as the marvel multiverse, but the fact that Zen-Oh can destroy the DB Cosmos in an instant, effortlessly, makes me think he's Multiversal.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:50 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
the DBS mortal universe has billions upon billions of galaxies, just like a marvel universe . DB has 12 universes, along with the world of void, Zen-Ohs realm, and countless alternate dimensions. It's not as big as the marvel multiverse, but the fact that Zen-Oh can destroy the DB Cosmos in an instant, effortlessly, makes me think he's Multiversal.


Well i agree just because i don't have real evidence.

Yeah Zeno is multiversal that's clear.

But Zeno's powers are really nothing further from erasing things.

I believe Zeno is more of a kid. Like a baby playing with his toys. If we ever get to see a mature old alien of his type...then we might be talking about true multiversal power.

You know Omni King is multiversal but i don't know if his powers reach even Neigh Omnipotence.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:55 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Now the thing is this.

How big is DB's universe?

Because we can't really compare one universe with another just like that...

DB's universe can be as big as one of Marvel's galaxies.

Just like we see it with DB's Multiverse...DB's multiverse is comprised of 13 universes..whereas Marvel's and DC's universe is comprised of 100s if not 1000's of universes and realities.

Galactus is considered a Universal force too. Galactus could destroy a universe.


It's tiny:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...=20110717111443

Snake Way takes up a lot of that image, and it"s only a million kilometers long.

Plus Goku flew to planet namem without a warp drive. Humans don"t have warp tech, which is why Bulma needed a Namek ship, yet Dr. Briefs simple rocket propulsion system got him there, with no mention of advanced tech beyond a gravity chamber.

Not to mention, each Kaio watch's a mere four quadrants. That all implies a very insanely tiny universe.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 06:36 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
It's tiny:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...=20110717111443

Snake Way takes up a lot of that image, and it"s only a million kilometers long.

Plus Goku flew to planet namem without a warp drive. Humans don"t have warp tech, which is why Bulma needed a Namek ship, yet Dr. Briefs simple rocket propulsion system got him there, with no mention of advanced tech beyond a gravity chamber.

Not to mention, each Kaio watch's a mere four quadrants. That all implies a very insanely tiny universe.


I also think that DB's universe would be smaller than the standard Marvel/DC universe.

Just like their multiverse is.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 07:20 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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CDTM is trolling. The scale of an average DB universe has been retconned to being "endless" and containing billions upon billions of galaxies.

I wish you'd be more objective, cdtm. Maybe I'd support comic characters more often. sad


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 07:25 PM
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NewGuy01
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Given that DB's universes are visibly finite, and considering that physically traveling between U7 and Zen-Oh's palace was stated to be possible, "endless" is clearly hyperbole. That being said, per the manga, there are at minimum tens of thousands of galaxies in each universe.

To argue that the universes are small, you'd essentially either have to argue that the planets themselves are scaled down, or that the galaxies consist of less systems.

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 08:49 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Given that DB's universes are visibly finite, and considering that physically traveling between U7 and Zen-Oh's palace was stated to be possible, "endless" is clearly hyperbole. That being said, per the manga, there are at minimum tens of thousands of galaxies in each universe.

To argue that the universes are small, you'd essentially either have to argue that the planets themselves are scaled down, or that the galaxies consist of less systems.


Well Marvel and DC's universes are considered Infinite.

So i don't know how that compares to 10s of Thousands.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 10:00 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Marvel and DC universes aren't actually infinite in terms of space/mass.

I'd argue the size of the mortal universe in DBZ is about the size of our universe. That's not including Heaven, Hell, the Kaioshin Realm, etc.

Beerus is universal.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 10:29 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Okay. I know which road you will take! Galactus<Bills<Jiren just because it's known among the Gods that there was a mortal that defeated one of the Gods.

Now, the issue is although all things point at Jiren being that mortal it isn't certain. It could be him it couldn't.

Even if Jiren did beat his God of Destruction, it still doesn't mean he is OVER Bills. Since Universe 11 God of Destruction could be < powerful than Universe 7 God of Destruction.

Even if Jiren>Galactus i completely disagree with Bills> Galactus.

But this thread doesn't concern Bills so...I would have to discuss that on another thread.

Now responding to Beta Ray Bill I don't remember that comic well.....But if my memory doesn't fails me Galactus was VERY STARVED in that movie.

Now as i said, i don't remember well. Could you post some panels or the issue of that comic so i can read it?


Wait a minute. Did you just say Beta Ray Bill is above Jiren? Please tell me you didn't.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 11:13 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. Did you just say Beta Ray Bill is above Jiren? Please tell me you didn't.


Yeah, Bill only fought a universe ending abstract level being and Thor powered by a multiversal tier Infinity Gem.

Don't troll Carver with facts, Josh! mad


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 11:21 PM
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