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Wonder Woman Vs Flash
Started by: riv6672

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DarkSaint85
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WW wasn't holding back in her showing with Bats. She was out to kill,in the DCnU showing.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 03:44 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
WW wasn't holding back in her showing with Bats. She was out to kill,in the DCnU showing.



Tsk.
MY turn to shake my head...

How long have you read comics?

Don't you know by now that the only thing that matters is whether BATMAN was holding back or not?


Batkick versus Superman (Dark Knight Returns)

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Batkick versus motorcycle (unknown)
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Batkick versus Despero
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Batkick versus Hulk
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Batkick versus Wonder Woman
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Batkick versus Darkseid
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Batkick versus ... Spectre?
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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 04:02 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Some of those have context...the Spectre showing,for example, is not always shown in full.

In the next panel,Spectre asks Batman ifit made him feel better. He did it deliberately so that Batman could feel good.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 04:07 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Sounds like Spectre was scared of what would happen if Batman stayed mad at him too long ...

Spectre DOES follow the will The Presence after all ...

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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 04:22 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 04:32 PM
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riv6672
MAY 2000-NOV 2017

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Indeed there was more to add.

This thread raises some interesting issues, though.

In no particular order:

When does a person's habitual action go from PIS, or even CIS, to a defining feature, habit, or trait of that character?

How much should be corrected for when a writer elevates a character to effective demigodhood?

For the last, I'm thinking of the following, where neither Flash NOR Wonder Woman fare all that well against the Master of Overachievement we know as Bruce:


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Thanks for the Bump and the scans! thumb up


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That's not a bat. This...is a bat.

Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 10:39 PM
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riv6672
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^^^why do the gay ass socks always find their way into my threads?


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That's not a bat. This...is a bat.

Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 10:57 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by riv6672
Thanks for the Bump and the scans! thumb up



No problem.

As alluded to before, this topic raises a lot of issues germane to comic debate, items that deserve to be pointed out, but seldom if ever have been.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 05:51 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Too bad I didn't remember that the invisible jet was actually a thing during Wonder Woman's post-Crisis run during the era of Devastation, which you unknowingly alluded to just now. Invisible AND it responds to mental commands?

As much as post-Crisis Flash had a habit of running into things?



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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman does not get the Batmobile during forum fights.

WW wouldn't get the Invisible Jet in THIS.

I mean, we can count up the number of times the Batmobile is used in HIS appearances, vs the number of times the Jet appears in hers....



I should and will clarify: the above was me lamenting not remembering about the invisible jet post-crisis Wonder Woman had in time for the Tournament of Power Id recently held.

That's why I wrote "too bad I didn't remember" instead of "I remember now".
THIS thread is current and has no real time limit. Anything I recall can be posted once I recall and retrieve it. Id's tournament, however, though the JUDGING is still ongoing as I type this, had a deadline for participant submissions, which passed many weeks ago.

Why would it have been good to remember, if the jet was not part of Wondy's standard equipment?

Because in the stips for his tournament, linked here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t646629.html

... Id specified:



----------
Equipment: Standard equipment. Characters that can store and recall equipment in pocket dimension are allowed to recall them, and are treated as standard equipment. Example Kang the Conqueror.
----------



And Wondy has several times throughout her post-1985 history demonstrated having stuff that was extra-dimensional, most recently in her DCnU incarnation where she could literally pull weapons from the gauntlets on her wrists.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 06:22 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider

Wondy has several times throughout her post-1985 history demonstrated having stuff that was extra-dimensional, most recently in her DCnU incarnation where she could literally pull weapons from the gauntlets on her wrists.



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Above is Wonder Woman #32 volume 4 if memory serves.


The following is from Wonder Woman #3 volume 2, roughly 30 years ago.

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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 07:09 PM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
No problem.

As alluded to before, this topic raises a lot of issues germane to comic debate, items that deserve to be pointed out, but seldom if ever have been.

That was totally my intention... embarrasment


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 07:43 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Well, let's examine some of these things.


For starters, there's reputation, and I suppose even forum reputation versus comic book reputation.

These are obviously 2 different things.

By forum reputation, as you can see even on page 1 of this thread, Flash is a clear winner.

By comic book reputation ...?

JLA Terror Incognito, the "Return of the White Martians" arc, gives one answer:

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Flash is lumped into the same category as the other "Red One" i.e. Plastic Man, not a terribly credible threat:


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 07:56 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Now, to be fair, different writers are going to be of different opinions.
Nor is the opinion of a villain necessarily gospel.

In point of fact, in the previous arc, the JLA member with the best fight record against the White Martians was Batman, who took on 3 or 4 of the Martians, more or less at once, and was teased about age taking away some of his edge by Wally or Kyle. Part of that will be shown in some later scans if Turbo Image holds out for me today and time permits.

For that matter, the White Martians will eventually be slain by Fernus in the next arc, a Martian with even more power than any of them, so much so that the entire League will be hard pressed to match Fernus, who is actually an altered form of J'onn Jonnz himself. And there the tide of battle will be turned by none other than "red" Plastic Man, whose unique physiology makes him immune to Martian telepathic attack and mind control. Then, too, this 2nd Martian arc features a marked contradiction from the previous series. There the Martians were dependent on air. Here, far from needing oxygen, the Martian plan is to remove oxygen from the Earth, suffocating its inhabitants and making them master of our solar system. How do you deal with such contradictions? At the least, they should be addressed.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 08:17 PM
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DarkSaint85
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And yet, he IMPd a White Martian with one blow.....

Plastic Man was Batman's ace in the hole, capable of stalemating Fernus.

The same Fernus who single handedly slaughtered the entire White Martian race.

So Martian threat sensing isn't exactly all that. After all, it was their 'threat sensing' which enabled Batman to take four out on his lonesome.

Edit: I should just let you debate against yourself lol as I see your subsequent post addressed it.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 08:17 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And yet, he IMPd a White Martian with one blow.....

Plastic Man was Batman's ace in the hole, capable of stalemating Fernus.

The same Fernus who single handedly slaughtered the entire White Martian race.

So Martian threat sensing isn't exactly all that. After all, it was their 'threat sensing' which enabled Batman to take four out on his lonesome.

Edit: I should just let you debate against yourself lol as I see your subsequent post addressed it.



More than that, I was JUST about to SHOW that near-infinite mass punch (i.m.p.) you mention above as it is a personal favorite of mine:

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Source: JLA #3
Arc: New World Order
Circa: 1997(?)



If you want to present something I won't be showing, put some speed-steal scans up here. With the exception of Justice League of America #23, Volume 2, I won't be able to present those, unless I accidentally stumble across some, for the simple fact that I don't know where more are to be found.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 08:33 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's the speedsteal, plus his, well, speed advantage over her.

It's a nonlethal option which he can and has used in the past, which will stand him in good stead. He wouldn't want to go fisticuffs with Diana - he knows her too well.



I'd be interested in knowing about how many times Flash has done so in the past. If it's not at least a couple, it's somewhat akin to what some poster argued in the following thread about Juggernaut using shrinking spells on people ...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t602252.html

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 08:55 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Justice League of America #23 volume 2.

Amazo versus JLA.

One of the very few instances I know of where Flash does actually use speed stealing on an opponent. I note here that it's only partial, though. By itself, it does NOT neutralize the threat Amazo presents. It doesn't seem to work for very long, either, and the damage inflicted on Flash himself in the exchange apparently causes Flash to pass out. To be fair, though, we ARE talking about Amazo -- few writers would allow anything less than a team or deus ex machina solution to work on a villain of this caliber early on -- and the super speed he still seems to possess could easily have been gleaned from Superman, Wonder Woman, or both.




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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 09:21 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 09:40 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So now I'm confused

You've gone from using PIS showings....to now using Supergirl, and relocating the fight to the Moon?




The point of the Supergirl ep (Supergirl #4) was to show that Flash can and often does get distracted or ignore features of his environment when fighting his opponents. It's also worth pointing out Wonder Woman is a strategist who often DOES consider such things and can very quickly take a battle to a place that gives her an advantage against tough opponents. In this example, for instance, JLA #4, Diana takes on Primaid, a White Martian who stunned and cratered Superman in their first encounter, and then gained the upper hand against J'onn here:

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After an interlude where Zum, the White Martian I.m.p.'d by Flash takes on Aquaman and gets schooled, we see Diana make (somewhat) quick work of her foe:

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This is instructive for another reason, mentioned before. Note that this move would not (hopefully under a DIFFERENT writer, travesty if the same) work on Primaid at the time of Terror Incognita, JLA #58.

Primaid by then had been RETCONNED into requiring no air to breathe.
Presumably, by that time, so had Diana.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 09:49 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Oh, if we are posting scans where the combatants are master strategists:

Wally out-thinks a supercomputer the size of a sun - faith placed in him by no less than Batman, who tells him to be ready to out-think the ultimate computer:
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...51475-29623.jpg

Using up a WHOLE nanosecond to run every single simulation:
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...04117-36355.jpg

Ran another billion:
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...47708-29623.jpg

Strategising in nanoseconds:
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...229_page_15.jpg


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 09:54 PM
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