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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » The prequel era being the prime of the Jedi


The prequel era being the prime of the Jedi
Started by: Azronger

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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
It doesn't refer to the Order; it just refers to Jedi. Whether they were part of the Order or not doesn't have any significance. They continued to grow regardless.


To add to this point, I realized none of the quotes about PT being the prime refer to the Jedi Order. The KotOR CG does. You can be a Jedi without being a part of the Order, so PT being the prime of the Jedi and KotOR being the prime of the Order as an insitution are not contradictory notions.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 02:24 PM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Hence why I don't put KotOR as the prime of the Jedi either

Rather than point out the issues with the KotORCG quote, which anyone can recognize, justify the positioning that the PT era is instead the golden age, which is my main issue with this entire thread. I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense. I find it amusing the only legitimate claim to it is actually TotJ / KotOR. Every PT era quote is wonderfully ambiguous and distorted in use.

It's not that I rule out the PT to other eras like TotJ or KotOR. I don't have a solid opinion on which era I even consider the "golden age." The prequel trilogy very well may be the best era, but such an opinion isn't rooted in evidence - quite the contrary, actually. My point is you (and others) are trying to write this PT supremacy as G-Canon law, which it isn't. You even passively admitted in the above post that there are indeed issues with the notion and ambiguity surrounding the Lucas quotes.


This in response to BlueTiger or me?


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 02:27 PM
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DarthAnt66
bearly

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

(My last post got bumped to last page. Check out, Az.)
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
To add to this point, I realized none of the quotes about PT being the prime refer to the Jedi Order. The KotOR CG does. You can be a Jedi without being a part of the Order, so PT being the prime of the Jedi and KotOR being the prime of the Order as an insitution are not contradictory notions.


Except the KotOR quotes attribute KotOR's supremacy being an era filled with warfare. As per the quote, KotOR is absolute in both the institution-respect and the fighting-respect. The comments on the Sith and the Mandalorians are not relevant to the Jedi's power as an institution and, if anything, damaging.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 02:28 PM
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DarthAnt66
bearly

Registered: Feb 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
This in response to BlueTiger or me?

You, particularly in regards to claiming double-standards and basing your argument against the KotOR era.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 02:28 PM
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DarthDuelist9
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2016
Location: Atollon


 

It's actually quite logical that the PT era is the prime of the Jedi to be honest. They would've thousands of extra years of gathering new knowledge, improving training methods, experiences from past conflicts,...


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 03:20 PM
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FreshestSlice
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Registered: May 2014
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KotOR being the prime of the Jedi makes zero sense anyway. This is the Jedi after three galactic wars, two explicitly involving the culling of Jedi.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 04:52 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense.

Which doesn't work because the KotorCG quote doesn't share the context of the PT era quotes(or the ones which can be applied to an induvidual's abilities).

Lucas's first quote is very clearly in the context of an individual combatant's ability

The third quote specifically references how powerful the masters are, not the institution.

Last edited by Rockydonovang on Oct 31st, 2017 at 11:37 PM

Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 11:34 PM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Hence why I don't put KotOR as the prime of the Jedi either

Rather than point out the issues with the KotORCG quote, which anyone can recognize, justify the positioning that the PT era is instead the golden age, which is my main issue with this entire thread. I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense. I find it amusing the only legitimate claim to it is actually TotJ / KotOR. Every PT era quote is wonderfully ambiguous and distorted in use.

It's not that I rule out the PT to other eras like TotJ or KotOR. I don't have a solid opinion on which era I even consider the "golden age." The prequel trilogy very well may be the best era, but such an opinion isn't rooted in evidence - quite the contrary, actually. My point is you (and others) are trying to write this PT supremacy as G-Canon law, which it isn't.


I already listed several validations for PT paramountcy, none of which you from the looks of things noticed. But once again, no one needs to justify facts. Facts are, by their very definition, absolute truths. They don't require further validation - otherwise they would not be facts.

And given you completely ignored my other point, the CWCG quote does indeed remain factual: the Jedi grew as the Republic grew, meaning they'd be more capable of solving crises as time went on. The Clone Wars take place later in history than the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, so per that statement, the Jedi are better during the former than they were during the latter two.

quote:
You even passively admitted in the above post that there are indeed issues with the notion and ambiguity surrounding the Lucas quotes.


Enlighten me. Not that I used Lucas' quotes to argue this in the first place anyway.

quote:
Except the KotOR quotes attribute KotOR's supremacy being an era filled with warfare. As per the quote, KotOR is absolute in both the institution-respect and the fighting-respect. The comments on the Sith and the Mandalorians are not relevant to the Jedi's power as an institution and, if anything, damaging.


That's fair.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2017 01:06 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Hope everyone paid attention to Luke Skywalker himself confirming the Prequel era as the Jedi at the Height of their Powers.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:09 AM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Hope everyone paid attention to Luke Skywalker himself confirming the Prequel era as the Jedi at the Height of their Powers.

Within Disney Canon, hence not applicable to Legends.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:33 AM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Within Disney Canon, hence not applicable to Legends.



So basically it’s Canon, yeah.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 11:36 AM
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quanchi112
I win

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

Azronger still doesn't grasp the concept of the Star Wars mythos growing outside the touch of Lucas, that Azronger's interpretation could be wrong, or that he was only comparing the Pt to the Ot era. It's about as cringe worthy as some religious zealot swearing up and down his interpretation of some text is the only way to interpret said information.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 01:54 PM
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Zenwolf
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Registered: Dec 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Within Disney Canon, hence not applicable to Legends.


Well he did it in Legends too, so both.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 02:29 PM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liEtSzWZPFo

There's also this, which is literally titled "the prime of the Jedi."


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 05:36 PM
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LordOfTheLight
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2017
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Luke confirming PT era as its prime was from Book of Sith, which is Legends. This is also most likely GM Luke, as it is after 25 BBY.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 05:49 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

What's up with this PT/OT nostalgia to some MKC users?


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 11:48 PM
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Dark-Kenshin
Blocked

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: United States


 

The proper context of these quotes is to contrast what we see on the OT. Clunky lightsaber duels, limited use of the force and very few force wielders. So I don't believe they have any value in the context of versus forum debate. confused

Old Post Jan 7th, 2018 12:03 AM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

Mysteries of the Jedi, a book entirely about PT Jedi, claims that they're the most powerful ones of all time. Given it came out in 2011, it retcons all the KotOR quotes. PT Jedi are indeed supreme among all eras.

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Old Post Jan 27th, 2018 10:53 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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There is absolutely no quote present that implies tor/kotor jedi were the most powerful as individuals. No retcon is needed.

Old Post Jan 27th, 2018 11:28 PM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

All these quotes about "primes" can have multiple potential interpretations, but if we're trying to judge the upper tiers of each era there isn't even a legitimate conversation: which era of Jedi had people to match Yoda, Anakin, Mace Windu and Obi Wan again? Heck Yoda, Mace and Jedi Dooku all have quotes placing them above every Jedi before them, so literally we have an example of the most powerful "record" being broken three times, four if you include Anakin.


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2018 03:15 AM
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