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Blue Marvel vs Wonder Woman
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Damborgson
Still Thor

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To be fair to Adam, Hyperion seemed to be having a good day.

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Old Post Nov 6th, 2017 11:42 PM
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Stoic
Avenger

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -K-M-
Here's the full "fight". Again zero context behind it. We have no clue if he even beat him or if he did...how he did it

https://i.imgur.com/1haEHab.jpg


Lets look it into it a bit deeper. This is from the same issue where Blue Marvel struggled against King Hyperion. Pagan, true Pagan is a lot more powerful then KH. One hell of a stretch there


King Hyperion apparently hit Adam harder than the Sentry did. Does that mean that KH was a mid to high meta? He beat Pagan. It was simply one more of the errands that he completed while traveling the world helping out. Did you see him holding a weapon? Tech? Team mates? We see him punching Pagan, and it hurting Pagan which was indicative of him completing another mission. We didn't see him drop the building, or village that he held in the air. Maybe he lost his grip and all of those people plummeted to their deaths? No KM because the plot lead us to believe that he completed those tasks.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 12:18 AM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
King Hyperion apparently hit Adam harder than the Sentry did. Does that mean that KH was a mid to high meta? He beat Pagan. It was simply one more of the errands that he completed while traveling the world helping out. Did you see him holding a weapon? Tech? Team mates? We see him punching Pagan, and it hurting Pagan which was indicative of him completing another mission. We didn't see him drop the building, or village that he held in the air. Maybe he lost his grip and all of those people plummeted to their deaths? No KM because the plot lead us to believe that he completed those tasks.


Sure did. But as noted sentry was holding back AND his powers were in flux due to the negative zone energy. Confirmed by writer and we know negative energy weakens him from his own sentry mini

A weakened Sasquatch put the same Hyperion to his knees with a single punch for an extended period of time

He best pagan? Where did it say that? How did he beat him? Since your so sure let’s see proof. Love how you take a single panel that didn’t even show a background as the entire fight and there was no other context involved erm difference with him lifting the items we see him doing it. We do not see him beating pagan. This is basic stuff


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 12:51 AM
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Stoic
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -K-M-
Sure did. But as noted sentry was holding back AND his powers were in flux due to the negative zone energy. Confirmed by writer and we know negative energy weakens him from his own sentry mini

A weakened Sasquatch put the same Hyperion to his knees with a single punch for an extended period of time

He best pagan? Where did it say that? How did he beat him? Since your so sure let’s see proof. Love how you take a single panel that didn’t even show a background as the entire fight and there was no other context involved erm difference with him lifting the items we see him doing it. We do not see him beating pagan. This is basic stuff


Yeah it is basic stuff, basic enough for most people to realize that the plot indicated that Adam completed all of the tasks that he set out to complete in all of the countries that he went to. Unless that was the only one that he didn't complete, or should we also assume that he dropped the building, village, and failed to complete all of the other things that he set out to do?

Your entire argument up til this point seems to be an attempt to invalidate any or all of the feats that he completed. Then you turn around and attempt to make it seem as if Ultimate Hulk was somehow weaker because of what happened to the Ultimates. I wonder what your opinion was of the Ghost of the Shaper? He fought against the Dark Celestials on Team Galactus. You didn't say it but I'll say it. Adam is above Sasquatch. Namor even compared his punching power to Thor, and the Hulk. Adm held back against a team of Avengers that would have stuffed Sasquatch into a hole. We can play that game though. How weak was the Sentry exactly? For all we know, he may have been operating at 90% or better strength.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 02:24 AM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah it is basic stuff, basic enough for most people to realize that the plot indicated that Adam completed all of the tasks that he set out to complete in all of the countries that he went to. Unless that was the only one that he didn't complete, or should we also assume that he dropped the building, village, and failed to complete all of the other things that he set out to do?

Your entire argument up til this point seems to be an attempt to invalidate any or all of the feats that he completed. Then you turn around and attempt to make it seem as if Ultimate Hulk was somehow weaker because of what happened to the Ultimates. I wonder what your opinion was of the Ghost of the Shaper? He fought against the Dark Celestials on Team Galactus. You didn't say it but I'll say it. Adam is above Sasquatch. Namor even compared his punching power to Thor, and the Hulk. Adm held back against a team of Avengers that would have stuffed Sasquatch into a hole. We can play that game though. How weak was the Sentry exactly? For all we know, he may have been operating at 90% or better strength.


Haha it’s a common concept. Off-panel fights or feats are suspect and questionable. You’re trying to take it for face value but YOU have no proof it happened as you say. Did we know his goal was to beat him? Delay him? Bfr him? How did pagan even return? There’s huge context we are missing. Did he have help? Did he use his smarts? Did he beat him with his fists? What was it stotic? Endulge us what happened

No you just choose to ignore context. Actually carver asked the context behind it first and it was a fact the ultimates were missing merrories. I never said he was physically weaker but context was left out. So again if your mind is altered, memories removed how on earth does that not impact you? Same thing when people are mind controlled we will often not take that as fact how a normal fight would go. Nor do we know for a fact Maker didn't make other manipulations as he was manipulating reality. BM said he got a lucky punch on Namor. So their fight was close as per adam. He was on the loosing end against the avengers. Also to note WW2 fought th same avengers (sans marvel) and looked better

I do enjoy how you’re bringing Sasquatch into it. Your arguments supports my point about a weakened Sasquatch doing that to King Hyperion

We have no clue exactly. But as writer said his powers being “screwed up” as KG stated. Considering after the dive bomb he was completely drained would appear a decent amount


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 02:50 AM
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And just realized I’m wasting my time. Just remembered had the same arguement with you on BM and no matter what you always side with him even when majority disagree with you


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 03:03 AM
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TheHulkster
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I thought writer comments can’t be used? Nothing in that story implies that Sentry’s power is in flux. That’s something readers came up with and pressed the writer to give an answer that he basically just tossed out. I doubt seriously that he was considering that when he wrote it.

Sentry becomes weaker in the Negative Zone. Nothing alludes to fighting an anti-matter powered being as having the same effect. The implication of him completing all of those tasks is far stronger.

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 03:12 AM
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celeyhyga17
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Gotta agree.
Absolutely nothing in the story indicated that.



And though heavily implied, there's not enough proof on him beating Pagan.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 03:16 AM
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-K-M-
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Normally no but then refer to sentry mini. We know for a FACT negative energy messes with sentry. It wasn’t just being in the zone but the zone had the negative mercy

In the blue marvel mini they say negative energy. Also did you miss th negative energy was sleeping into earth?


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 03:18 AM
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Sentry being drained after dive bomb iron man confirms a bigger rift to negative zone opened

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What has been established as weakening sentry? Negative zone energy. Anti-man was even releasing anti-matter in his first fight with the avengers. He lost enough energy causing him to vanish

Prior to sentry and BM fight (issue 5) anti-matter storms were popping up (issue 3). Prior to ththe fight in 5 reed says storms have gotten much worse

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Last edited by -K-M- on Nov 7th, 2017 at 03:34 AM

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 03:21 AM
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I’m basing this off of established history of sentry. again negative zone energy bad for sentry. Prior to the avengers and BM fight..BM says this

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If you feel writer didn’t intend to write that part that’s your opinion. But there’s more weight behind him being affected then not. When has sentry been that drained before? Especially when he did a dive bomb


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 03:54 AM
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celeyhyga17
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Sentry was hurt. Not drained. He just finished recovering from a flash ko and he went straight for a kamikaze dive bomb in hopes of ending things quickly.

As far as being weak to nzone "energy", that part has never really been established. It seemed more to do with his psyche. Void seemed to overtake his good half when in the negative zone. Maybe because the nzone was the inverse of the positive universe? Some symbolism in play maybe? Dunno.

And not once during the BM mini was it shown or even hinted at that he was drained. Heck Grevioux went out of his way to not say he was weakened by the negative energy. His answer seemed to just want to appease a fan that led him into an answer.


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Last edited by celeyhyga17 on Nov 7th, 2017 at 04:34 AM

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 04:30 AM
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TheHulkster
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Sentry isn’t drained, he’s woozy from the impact on top of taking earlier punishment. The Sentry mini established Sentry as weakening in n-space and the Void growing stronger. So if Sentry is similarly affected by leaking antimatter, then BM should have ended up fighting a Voided out Sentry.

The important point in my opinion is that there is no mention of Sentry being weakened by any leaking energy nor anything else.

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 04:33 AM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Sentry was hurt. Not drained. He just finished recovering from a flash ko and he went straight for a kamikaze dive bomb in hopes of ending things quickly.

As far as being weak to nzone "energy", that part has never really been established. It seemed more to do with his psyche. Void seemed to overtake his good half when in the negative zone. Maybe because the nzone was the inverse of the positive universe? Some symbolism in play maybe? Dunno.

And not once during the BM mini was it shown or even hinted at that he was drained. Heck Grevioux went out of his way to not say he was weakened by the negative energy. His answer seemed to just want to appease a fan that led him into an answer.


Hurt from a dive bomb? When has that ever happened before?

In the comic and in the handbooks refer to negative zone diminishing his light powers. Hence why he brought the Hulk with him. At this point of time when he fought BM he was in light mode. Same form that was impacted by negative energy

And? Again prior established continuity. Not sure why your arguing so much that no way it could have been that. Dive bomb scene is a pretty good example. KG said “screwed up” his powers which 100% could explain the reason he was like that after th divebomb. Now you guys are basically saying he was bullied and that’s why he was forced to say negative zone energy impacted sentry. Come on erm


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 11:09 AM
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Early punishment? He was winning the fight and mentioned was holding back. Sentry tried to talk him down and then BM hit him into space. He returned a few panels later doing the dive bomb. If a divebomb hurt him that much that’s a pretty low showing.

Be really when has sentry been that weakened/drained/hurt after just 2 “hits”. Again seems this is the route we’re taking now..prior established continuity has shown us otherwise


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 11:14 AM
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Frigging can’t edit my posts


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 11:15 AM
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Stoic
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When other characters like Gladiator, or Superman are around energy that affects them negatively, we typically read them or see them saying something about it. Sentry said nothing about feeling weak in the presence of Adam. He didn't fire off any energy at Bob. did he once even mention feeling weak during that story? It seems more like another attempt to invalidate Adam's feats.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 11:20 AM
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-K-M-
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He was punched into the atmosphere meaning he would have flown through an anti-matter storm. Also the fact the storms were popping up over the world releasing their energy into the earth. You guys don’t want to agree with KG ie the writer of the story (that’s fine) but he did confirm this was “screwing up” sentry powers and prior continuity has established negative zone energy is bad for sentry

Again have we seen sentry that depleted thay weakened after two hits? One sending him into space (returned a few panels later) and the other he did himself by doing a divebomb on BM


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Last edited by -K-M- on Nov 7th, 2017 at 11:48 AM

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 11:43 AM
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carver9
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@KM...

I don't think they are saying the dive bomb hurt him... They are saying the punch did and if you look at Sentry posture when floating in space, you can see why they are saying that. As soon as he woke up, he flew down to Blue Marvel swinging. Imagine getting knocked out, waking up from being knocked out and then trying to fight someone as soon as you're up. You're not going to be anywhere near your best. Sentry dive bomb BM in a position like this, without recovery.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 01:16 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
@KM...

I don't think they are saying the dive bomb hurt him... They are saying the punch did and if you look at Sentry posture when floating in space, you can see why they are saying that. As soon as he woke up, he flew down to Blue Marvel swinging. Imagine getting knocked out, waking up from being knocked out and then trying to fight someone as soon as you're up. You're not going to be anywhere near your best. Sentry dive bomb BM in a position like this, without recovery.


Oh it hurt him. But he recovered incredibly fast and returned in not much time. Again when has sentry being that rocked/drained after two hits? It fits with prior continuity and writer statement (which isn’t always fact, but does provide context). Let’s say we ignore the dive bomb so one hit did that to sentry? Makes zero sense based on sentry prior showings


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 01:34 PM
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