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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Dooku & Vader's power level


Dooku & Vader's power level
Started by: godemperortrump

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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

Registered: Sep 2017
Location: White House


 

Dooku & Vader's power level

Is Vader's power closer to Maul or Sidious?

Is Dooku's power closer to Maul or Sidious?

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 10:01 PM
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Kurk
An heroed

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Mom's basement


 

RotJ Vader is 80% of Sidious, so probably closer to him in raw power than he is to Maul.


Dooku's mastery of the force is closer to Sidious than Maul. However, his raw power is closer to Maul than Sheev.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 10:04 PM
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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

Registered: Sep 2017
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Has anyone substantiated that Vader 80% quote yet?

Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 10:05 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

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The quote exists, but it wasn't stated to hype up Vader - the contrary, actually. The point of the 80% was to demonstrate Vader's inferiority to Sidious and that he vastly declined in raw power, because his raw potential was 200% the power of Sidious. People using it to hype Vader is the craziest thing ever.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2017 10:13 PM
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LordOfTheLight
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2017
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It's probably Lucas's words that lead to it. He said that Anakin could have become 200% of the Emperor, but then goes on to say that Vader "is" 80% of the Emperor.

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 01:30 AM
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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

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When did he say this. Can someone show me some proof?

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 01:40 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
It's probably Lucas's words that lead to it. He said that Anakin could have become 200% of the Emperor, but then goes on to say that Vader "is" 80% of the Emperor.

He then directly likens Vader's power to that of Maul or Dooku's, rather than like Sidious'.

Overall, it's certainly not impressive for Vader unless someone finds him significantly inferior to Maul or Dooku.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 01:42 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by godemperortrump
When did he say this. Can someone show me some proof?

Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there's not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isnít what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You'll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no.

---

And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor Ė he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 01:51 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

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Considering the context of the two quotes, there's really no basis for using the 80% statistic for placing Vader above Maul (although he is nonetheless).

If anything, it seems that Lucas believes Maul and Dooku are also around 80% of Sidious power - and that doesn't fare well for them either.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 01:54 AM
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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

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Nice, thanks. I'm a bit tired of seeing that thrown around.

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 02:14 AM
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Trocity
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Vader sucks.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 03:08 AM
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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

Registered: Sep 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Trocity
Vader sucks.

Yes. Yes they do.

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 03:09 AM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The quote exists, but it wasn't stated to hype up Vader - the contrary, actually. The point of the 80% was to demonstrate Vader's inferiority to Sidious and that he vastly declined in raw power, because his raw potential was 200% the power of Sidious. People using it to hype Vader is the craziest thing ever.


You are misinterpreting Lucas' quote. He doesn's say Anakin's potential is 200 % of Sidious'. He merely says that 200 % of Sidious is something Vader can't reach anymore. That's it. Nowhere does he say Anakin's progress would've ended at 200 %. He could very well have gone beyond it - and would have, if the Mortis arc is any indication.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 06:27 AM
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Azronger
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On topic, peak Legends Vader is definitely closer to RotS Sidious than Dooku or Maul.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 06:29 AM
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Kurk
An heroed

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
You are misinterpreting Lucas' quote. He doesn's say Anakin's potential is 200 % of Sidious'. He merely says that 200 % of Sidious is something Vader can't reach anymore. That's it. Nowhere does he say Anakin's progress would've ended at 200 %. He could very well have gone beyond it - and would have, if the Mortis arc is any indication.
By definition all interpretations are valid.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 11:36 AM
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Azronger
Vanguard of the Sheevites

Registered: Jun 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
By definition all interpretations are valid.


No.


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 12:10 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
You are misinterpreting Lucas' quote. He doesn's say Anakin's potential is 200 % of Sidious'. He merely says that 200 % of Sidious is something Vader can't reach anymore. That's it. Nowhere does he say Anakin's progress would've ended at 200 %. He could very well have gone beyond it - and would have, if the Mortis arc is any indication.


The obvious implication is 200%, but Lucas was just throwing out numbers, so obviously I don't expect Vader to be precisely 200%.

These numbers are impossible to gauge, regardless, and wholly irrelevant to the conversation.

In regards to Mortis, it's unknown if Lucas regards the entire sequence as a vision / symbolic metaphor or a legitimate place with gods.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:29 PM

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 12:14 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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Untill someone can bother to specify what 80% power means in the context of a battle, any use of the quote for power levels is retarded.

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 10:01 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The obvious implication is 200%, but Lucas was just throwing out numbers, so obviously I don't expect Vader to be precisely 200%.

thumb up

Old Post Nov 8th, 2017 10:01 PM
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