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Mass Shootings in America Thread
Started by: Robtard

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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, that's simple: because it's very ineffective at reducing any crime at all, costly to people, and very difficult to enforce. It's a waste of time, resources, and meddles in yet another facet of property rights.

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You're meddling in people's liberty through constricting their actions, meddling with their property rights both in restricting what they can do with their own property and through the taxpayer money needed to enforce this, and I don't think what's being suggested has a proven enough security for people's lives (denting the gun death statistic at 4.5% at the unrealistic most assuming it was perfectly enforced, and in all likelihood substantially less than that) to actually justify this.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:20 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote:
because it's very ineffective at reducing any crime at all,

It reducing crime at all would render it effective.
quote:

costly to people,

quote:

and very difficult to enforce.

Addressed here:
quote:
it'll dissuade people from giving guns to their kids if they're told it's illegal.

I'm aware many people will just ignore the law, but there will also be people who respect the law and will follow it.

quote:
and meddles in yet another facet of property rights

There's no principle based defense for alowing certain people to bypass laws others have to undergo thanks to nepotism.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:21 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Silent Master
Right, now of that 4.5% how many were done with bump stocks or inherited guns that were given to people that wouldn't pass a background check?

Because his solutions were "ban bump stocks, forbid guns being passed from family member to family member without a background check."


And hell, I posted a video earlier that was on youtube that showed you how to do a homemade bumpstock lol.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:23 PM
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snowdragon
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2010
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It reducing crime at all would render it effective.


Addressed here:


There's no principle based defense for alowing certain people to bypass laws others have to undergo thanks to nepotism.


So why pass a law that you think might be ineffective, to punish people? In your previous threads you have spoken about systemic issues................this sort of law just perpetuates that problem.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:23 PM
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Rockydonovang
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Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb

You're meddling in people's liberty through constricting their actions, meddling with their property rights both in restricting what they can do with their own property and through the taxpayer money needed to enforce this

quote:
There's no principle based defense for alowing certain people to bypass laws others have to undergo thanks to nepotism.
The government allowing people to bypass restrictions others can't because of who happens to be in their family or friend circles is immoral as hell.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:23 PM
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Rockydonovang
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Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by snowdragon
So why pass a law that you think might be ineffective

If it reduces gun deaths, it's effective.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:24 PM
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Silent Master
Senior Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
And hell, I posted a video earlier that was on youtube that showed you how to do a homemade bumpstock lol.


What's more, you don't even need a bump stock in order to rapid fire a rifle. bump-firing is a technique that's been around for a long time. it just takes some practice.


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posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:27 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
If it reduces gun deaths, it's effective.


What if it's a low amount? What if it prevents only 2 gun related deaths? Is it worth it?


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:27 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Silent Master
What's more, you don't even need a bump stock in order to rapid fire a rifle. bump-firing is a technique that's been around for a long time. it just takes some practice.
We do not enact policy hoping it will absolutely end the malpractice the policy is aimed at preventing. We enact policy because it makes said malpractice harder and less likely to happen.

Just because some people can find a way to bypass a law doesn't mean they're all willing to take the extra effort it takes to bypass said law.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:30 PM
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snowdragon
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2010
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
If it reduces gun deaths, it's effective.


You do realize that this position takes away alot of your strengths in the systemic thread? If its effective without measurement or defined terms, gotcha.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:31 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
What if it's a low amount? What if it prevents only 2 gun related deaths? Is it worth it?

Worth what? Why should the government allow people to bypass the law by virtue of who they're related to?

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:31 PM
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Rockydonovang
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Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by snowdragon
You do realize that this position takes away alot of your strengths in the systemic thread? If its effective without measurement or defined terms, gotcha.

It's effective because there's no downside.

Voter ID laws on the other hand do have a definite downside.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:32 PM
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Robtard
Senor Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Captain's Chair, CA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
What if it's a low amount? What if it prevents only 2 gun related deaths? Is it worth it?


You want to tell the family of those two dead people that they just weren't worth it?


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:33 PM
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snowdragon
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in time


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It's effective because there's no downside.

Voter ID laws on the other hand do have a definite downside.


Thats false.

Unless you can prove mass shootings are from weapons passed down between family members, I don't mean stolen or taken but given..how many gun deaths caused by families given weapons.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:33 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
You want to tell the family of those two dead people that they just weren't worth it?


Not at all, I want to apply this to other things. Let me see if you can guess what. We have something where most people are law abiding citizens with, but a select few are bad. Now regulations that would save even just 1-2 lives are worthy according to you.

What else could we apply that line of thought to, do you think?


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:36 PM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
You want to tell the family of those two dead people that they just weren't worth it?

Two lives against the liberty and property of the citizens of an entire nation isn't worth it.


__________________

Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:38 PM
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Silent Master
Senior Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
We do not enact policy hoping it will absolutely end the malpractice the policy is aimed at preventing. We enact policy because it makes said malpractice harder and less likely to happen.

Just because some people can find a way to bypass a law doesn't mean they're all willing to take the extra effort it takes to bypass said law.


How is bump firing "malpractice"?


__________________
posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:44 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Two lives against the liberty and property of the citizens of an entire nation isn't worth it.
Your defense for not acting to prevent violence is the protection of the right to preferential treatment under the law?

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:45 PM
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Robtard
Senor Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Captain's Chair, CA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Not at all, I want to apply this to other things. Let me see if you can guess what. We have something where most people are law abiding citizens with, but a select few are bad. Now regulations that would save even just 1-2 lives are worthy according to you.

What else could we apply that line of thought to, do you think?


So saving some lives isn't that important. Gotcha and cool, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Just please remember this the next time you go on another "but I care about lives" spiel. Thanks in advance.


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Last edited by Robtard on Nov 16th, 2017 at 10:57 PM

Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:46 PM
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Robtard
Senor Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Captain's Chair, CA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Two lives against the liberty and property of the citizens of an entire nation isn't worth it.


Ask yourself, WWJD here?


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2017 10:47 PM
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