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US Prisons: How do we...
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Surtur
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Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Alright there, Lawful Evil.


A little girl just died of eye cancer because you refused to give her the eyes of a child molester.

How dare you.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 11:35 PM
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shiv
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Location: Tokyo City

Make owning a gun something which you have to have a twice yearly health check for (a health check from the neck up) (paid for by you or your sponsor)

You fail this. You lose your Guns.

This would help lower property, robbery, violent offences

Community Service

The first and second prison sentences handed out for offences should be light.

You get your day or week in jail.

If its an 18 or 24 month sentence you serve that sentence by reporting to your local police station - every day for 18 or however long that sentence is - months - and you're tasked with unpaid work assignments by your local government.

And while you're doing this unpaid work - if it becomes clear you need help with something - you get help.

If its your third strike = you're doing time Working Monday to Friday, 3 hours night school every day, Saturday, Sunday Off.

If the reason you're doing crime is to get bread - what you need is to be in a job - not a prison.

As others have stated

Make it illegal for employers to ask applicants about their criminal record.

Unless you've been assessed as a deeply flawed harmful personality ie: a serial killer or something Your criminal record can't be disclosed to your employer.

And yeah no private (for profit) prisons

Every single prison should be a prison which has a product on the market (with state and federal oversight on earnings)

And every single person walking out of a prison should have the skill and work experience to interview and get a job.

And no movies, tv, internet, games, ciggarettes, phones or commissary.

Last edited by shiv on Nov 21st, 2017 at 11:51 PM

Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 11:41 PM
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dadudemon
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Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
Make owning a gun something which you have to have a twice yearly health check for (a health check from the neck up) (paid for by you or your sponsor)

You fail this. You lose your Guns.

This would help lower property, robbery, violent offences



No it wouldn't, shiv. Sadly, it shifts the violence to some other thing like knives, clubs, and fists. As I've posted, with citations, before...the US doesn't have a gun problem, we have a violence problem. And as I've also posted, before, other countries with far fewer guns and far stricter gun laws, have higher violence rates (Russia).

To be successful with reducing violence, don't try and tackle US Violence via guns (or other tools used to commit violence). Tackle the actual violence, itself. Tackle and solve the reasons violence happens as opposed to how the violence happens.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
Community Service

The first and second prison sentences handed out for offences should be light.

You get your day or week in jail.

If its an 18 or 24 month sentence you serve that sentence by reporting to your local police station - every day for 18 or however long that sentence is - months - and you're tasked with unpaid work assignments by your local government.

And while you're doing this unpaid work - if it becomes clear you need help with something - you get help.

If its your third strike = you're doing time Working Monday to Friday, 3 hours night school every day, Saturday, Sunday Off.

If the reason you're doing crime is to get bread - what you need is to be in a job - not a prison.



This is a decent idea but it is slavery. The problem, already, is those in poverty commit the lionshare of the crimes. So making people work for free, who are already impoverished, does not solve the crime problem. Making them work more and earn more pay, however, has been demonstrated to not only reduce overall crime, but decrease recidivism.

The process goes like this:

Educate them -> Counsel Them -> Treat them (mental health, medical health) -> Train them -> Reintegrate them -> Help them make money for themselves -> exit the system as fully functioning members of society


Now, some of the above can and do occur simultaneously, of course. But that's the general process that has been proven, quite thoroughly, to reduce crime, reduce recidivism, and increase productivity.


Of course, that's tackling the problem AFTER they become criminals. There are also proven ways to tackle the problems BEFORE they commit crimes.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
As others have stated

Make it illegal for employers to ask applicants about their criminal record.

Unless you've been assessed as a deeply flawed harmful personality ie: a serial killer or something Your criminal record can't be disclosed to your employer.



I can agree to this. Sounds fair.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
And yeah no private (for profit) prisons

Every single prison should be a prison which has a product on the market (with state and federal oversight on earnings)


thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
And every single person walking out of a prison should have the skill and work experience to interview and get a job.


thumb up thumb up thumb up thumb up thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
And no movies, tv, internet, games, cigarettes, phones or commissary.


I disagree, somewhat. They should be incentives for good behavior and progress.



Very good post, shiv. Very much appreciate you putting so many ideas out there.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 12:29 AM
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dadudemon
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Crime rates by income:


(please log in to view the image)


Add the first 2 columns together and they are greater than the last 2 columns, added together. Which is what I meant by "the poor commit the lionshare of crimes."


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 12:34 AM
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Steve Zodiac
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Crime rates by income:


(please log in to view the image)


Add the first 2 columns together and they are greater than the last 2 columns, added together. Which is what I meant by "the poor commit the lionshare of crimes."
Of course they do, social inequality and lack of opportunity create underclasses. The Sociology of Poverty makes this clear. You have two types of poor (you actually have a lot of subgroups). Those resigned to failing in the system and those who turn their back on the system.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 04:29 AM
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Steve Zodiac
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Hold up, hold up. I know this is off-topic, but Steve Zodiac is Whirly?


Hail to the King baby smile

Nice to see you smile


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 04:32 AM
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Raisen
Thor is gay

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BackFire
A few things to improve our prison system.

1. Ditch for profit prisons. They have no actual benefit to society and are counter productive. If someone is profiting off of someone else being incarcerated then there will inevitably be a conflict of interest. It's unavoidable.

2. Minimize/remove non violent drug offenses. No one should do hard time for doing a drug in their own home. Instead, legalize things like weed and treat it as we treat alcohol and tobacco, both of which are more harmful than weed. Tax it, regulate it. For other harder drugs, instead of sending users to do hard time, send them to get help for their addictions. The goal should be to get them off drugs, not ruin their lives even more.

3. The goal for everything should be rehabilitation if it is at all possible rather than stark punishment. Once someone has been rehabilitated get them out of the prison system and back into society on the grounds that they have to contribute in some way - join the military, make sure they have a job, go to school, etc.

There should also be no mandatory minimum sentences. Those things are stupid and achieve diddly shit.


thumb up

it can be done. just need to change our general mindset.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 10:18 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Raisen
thumb up

it can be done. just need to change our general mindset.


Mindsets the big problem.

The thing is, if you can get enough people behind prison reform, things will happen. Pressure works both miracles, and tragedies (On the second point, a town park was shut down because of a cancer causing element seeping from the grass. Cue public uproar, and the park opens. A lot of kids get cancer.)

As to the first point, the problem is, prison reform doesn't really have a strong advocate. At best, we can talk about incarceration statistics by race, but even civil rights activists don't really give a crap about what happens to a man in prison. All they care about, is keeping black men out of the system.

With no advocacy group, there's no money. No money, no political capital.

So nothing changes. The people don't want change enough to put their money where their mouth is.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 10:43 PM
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Raisen
Thor is gay

Gender: Male
Location: Fresno, CA United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
Mindsets the big problem.

The thing is, if you can get enough people behind prison reform, things will happen. Pressure works both miracles, and tragedies (On the second point, a town park was shut down because of a cancer causing element seeping from the grass. Cue public uproar, and the park opens. A lot of kids get cancer.)

As to the first point, the problem is, prison reform doesn't really have a strong advocate. At best, we can talk about incarceration statistics by race, but even civil rights activists don't really give a crap about what happens to a man in prison. All they care about, is keeping black men out of the system.

With no advocacy group, there's no money. No money, no political capital.

So nothing changes. The people don't want change enough to put their money where their mouth is.


most people are weak and complacent now. we have just enough goodies to extinguish any real passion.

it's like training falcons for the hunt. if you give the falcon too much food it will fly away and you may never see it again. if you feed it just enough but keep it a tiny bit hungry...it will stay with you waiting for another morsel.

people are the same. just enough to be a little hungry and ***** about change...but not enough conviction to possibly lose what they have.


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QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.

Old Post Nov 22nd, 2017 10:47 PM
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Flyattractor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Hail to the King baby smile

Nice to see you smile


So Steve is a Sock/Alt.


Nice to know.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:03 AM
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Beniboybling
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Re: US Prisons: How do we...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. The USA has the highest, both per capita and in raw numbers, number of people imprisoned, in the world. 1, 2, 3
Isn't it interesting how the Greatest Country in the World keeps turning out to be the Worst in so many things?


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:09 AM
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Flyattractor
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No. It isn't. We just have the means and capability to PUNISH People when they break out laws. Its other countries that let them run rampant in their streets. Like the LARGE NO GO ZONES in European Cities.

SO Tired of seeing the US Hating People like Beny try to spread that lie. But then He is a Rich Elitst so He has to keep his Political Pay Masters Happy.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:12 AM
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Beniboybling
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laughing out loud

Alright Flyboy. sad


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:27 AM
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Flyattractor
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Awww. You Laugh and Frown at the Same time.

You must be so confused.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:29 AM
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ArtificialGlory
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
No. It isn't. We just have the means and capability to PUNISH People when they break out laws. Its other countries that let them run rampant in their streets. Like the LARGE NO GO ZONES in European Cities.

SO Tired of seeing the US Hating People like Beny try to spread that lie. But then He is a Rich Elitst so He has to keep his Political Pay Masters Happy.

This doesn’t really make sense when you think about it, though. The US is certainly not the only country in the world that has the means and capacity to punish people and have them thrown in jails. Even when you look at totalitarian countries such as China where you can be jailed for all kinds of stupid crap, it still doesn’t have as many prisoners as the US. And even if that was true, how come there’s still so much crime in the US, especially places like Chicago? Shouldn’t every criminal be in jail by now? It almost seems to me that the more people you imprison, the more crime there is.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:36 AM
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Flyattractor
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And Who has been in charge of Chicago for a few decades now? Which Political Party is that again?

Hmmmm?????


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:39 AM
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Flyattractor
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So by YOUR LOGIC to Get Rid of Crime we should just make Less Stuff a Crime?

That makes sense...


smokin'


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:40 AM
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ArtificialGlory
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Does it really matter which party is in charge? They’re both shit when it comes to this kind of thing and you really only need to look at the incarceration statistics for the state of Illinois to see what I’m talking about.

Making stuff that shouldn’t be a crime to begin with not a crime is probably a good start(eg., drug use). Getting rid of the private, for-profit prison industry is another. At least trying to focus on rehabilitation instead of just throwing people in jails and hoping they magically better themselves is yet another.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:48 AM
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Flyattractor
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Yeah. It kinda does.


And should ALL drugs be Legal? Or just certain ones?

Explain why you think so?


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 07:51 AM
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ArtificialGlory
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Yeah. It kinda does.


And should ALL drugs be Legal? Or just certain ones?

Explain why you think so?

No, it hardly makes a difference.

Not necessarily legal, but decriminalized.

This video does a much better job at explaining why than I ever could and I sincerely suggest you watch it:


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2017 08:00 AM
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