Registered: Feb 2015
Both Vitiate and Sidious are in the same pot. They are both overrated in their feats. Even the context of their feats is misunderstood. Especially about the whole Sidious-vs-Windu/Yoda duel where apparently Sidious never 'lost', but he threw the battle in the first case 100% which I find it horrendous. Even in the Sidious-Yoda duel, it's safe to say that Yoda lost the battle because he felt 'spiritually' defeated; the deaths of so many Jedi broke his desire to fight, maybe even Force-weakened him(?)
Vitiate is overrated in his Ritual of Medriaas. Some say that this is a huge feat because that ritual was designed to kill everyone, even him. But that's stupid, because that ritual was conjured by Vitiate to take every life on Medriaas and absorb it into himself. Based on this; there are people who think Vitiate can defend himself against Force drain or Force Wound drain(Nihilus) because he designed a ritual to make himself stronger.
After Medriaas became Nathema, we never saw Vitiate performing such a ritual. We saw that he exacted the Ritual of Ziost, but the Force flow came back on the planet some thousand(?), maybe hundred years later.
This leads me to believe that Vitiate did not have in mind to create a Force 'void', it was just a random, an anomaly, a wild card that happened once.
His ability to drain Medriaas is very overrated; he never drained it on his own; he needed the help of 8000 Sith Lords. In fact, you could argue that the collective power of the group is what began to consume Medriaas of its life-force and Force energy.
Not that I am diminishing his accomplishment. After all he managed to keep 8000 Sith Lords under his influence. And they were no slouches either; otherwise Vitiate wouldn't have chosen them if they didn't contain as a group enough Force power for the ritual.
IIRC, about the Ziost Ritual, he had accomplished it as a spirit. But he needed some amount of deaths in order to begin the ritual(that's why he began possessing Sith and Jedi on that planet).
Don't get me wrong; I don't underestimate his Force knowledge, nor his sorcery talents. But it seems that, in order to set a ritual to drain a planet, he needs outer Force reserves. But let's say he was already weak as a spirit, and we all understand him.
2. Darth Sidious
His ability to create Force storms(worm holes) is one of the major things that sets him as the supreme Sith-Lord-Of-Them-All. But those Force storms can be conjured when a user wields the dark side energies around them(that's why some of his adepts could conjure them too, but lacked the control); unless you want to state that they are equal in Force strength to him. That's why Sidious could conjure them on Byss and the Eclipses. Those places were filled with dark side energy.
Another thing for which Palpatine is enormously overrated is his ability to manipulate the mind of billions of citizens on Byss and mind-wipe 7 trillion of Coruscant people to forget about his big ships.
Let's pause for a second here: these two feats were executed on non-Force sensitive subjects.
If he could really mind wipe anyone; he would have already done it with the Jedi Order and any other Force-user who stood in his way. But we all know that it takes more effort to subjugate a Force-sensitive's mind.
Before anyone using Kam Solusar as an example. The emperor never mind-controlled him in the first place. Actually it was stated in the Dark Empire comics(IIRC), that it was the physical torture that broke his will(thus, his memories) and subjected him to Sidious' influence.
We also know about Palpatine's drain of Byss; this is another feat for Sheevites to give him an edge into a versus.
First of all; he never drained the planet; he only drained the lives of the citizens(non-Force sensitive and defenseless) It took him decades. And he drained it alongside his Dark Side Adepts(or Prophets were those?)
It took Vitiate just a few weeks in his first ritual, and in second one(maybe some days?) and some deaths.
I could give Vitiate the edge in this section.
Let's talk about his duels with both Windu and Yoda.
There is no proof that he threw off the fight 100%. We see that he had a good sparring match with Windu. Before you all bring in his Matrix speed feat; keep in mind that Ulic-Qel-Droma executed a similar feat in Onderon(weakened by its dark side ambiance)
Yes, Palpatine quickly got rid off those other Jedi. You have to keep in mind, though, that these modern Jedi never fought the Sith. They weren't yet accustomed to their enemy's fighting style.
It's like saying that the Flash is the biggest hero and an experienced fighter. But wait 'til he meets the Reverse-Flash. Of course he is gonna have his ass whooped a few times because he isn't ready to fight someone with similar abilities and different but similar discipline.
Back on topic, could Palpatine have continued the fight after he was put down when Anakin arrived? Definitely. You could say that's where Palpatine began to throw off the fight. But before that, both Windu and Palpatine were on equal ground. Windu's Vaapad is what allowed him to use Palpatine's darkness(dark emotions) to unleash his own Force strength against the Sith Lord. That's what Vaapad does. It is the opposite of Juyo. Instead of using your own emotions to unleash your Force strength, you use your enemy's darkness to unleash your Force strength.
As mentioned above in my first paragraphs. Nowhere does it mention that Palpatine had a fair-win against Yoda in their duel. If you watched the movie or even read the book; you would notice that it is the shift of the poles(darkness overcoming the light) that signified the defeat of the Jedi-->the defeat of Yoda. That's why Yoda exiled himself; because he failed his order.
Yes, Sidious did use Force concealment all these decades, even amongst the Jedi. But no one suspected him from the beginning, nor his master Plagueis.
That's why they were able to do what they have done. That's why Tenebrous said that the Force works better in the Sith's advantage because they don't wear an armor, but are a shadow, or something similar to that line.
Yes, Palpatine did manage to probe Plagueis' mind and 'manipulate' Plagueis into thinking that Sidious' plans were his own(though, I daresay Palpatine was just cocky)
But, don't forget that Plagueis never shielded his own mind from Palpatine-that gave him a weak spot. That was the whole story of Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise(novel); the Sith Muun was so arrogant and thought he can break free from the devouring cycle of the dark side where the apprentice kills the master and would live forever(surely he did the same to Tenebrous; but he never thought that the Force is a karma that hits you with tragedies)
Once again; I don't diminish their accomplishments.
Also, Palpatine, as far as I am aware of, has never been confirmed as the strongest Sith Lord of all histories. His title of Ultimate Sith revolves around the order which he was part of-the Order of the Banite Lords.
And it isn't his 'immeasurable' Force strength that makes him the baddest of the Banite Order; but his cunning, his social&political intellect and his military power. That's what makes Palpatine the most successful Sith Lord(and in many writers' eyes, the most powerful Sith Lord). He didn't use the fist to cripple and conquer the galaxy, but his brain.
The Ellimist: "Nadd is the 90 IQ guy who acts like a 70 IQ guy to make fun of the nerds"
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 4th, 2018 at 09:12 PM