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GT vs. DBS
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DeadpoolXXX
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GT vs. DBS

Based on power scaling alone, can GT characters put up any sort of fight against DBS characters?

I'm talking mostly about GT's primary cast of Saiyans, along with the key antagonists..... Can they contend with God level power in the slightest?


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 09:26 PM
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carver9
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Heard that GT takes place after dragonball Super.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 09:47 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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It takes place 10 years after Z.

That said, the likes of Jiren/Goku/Beerus as of right now would absolutely murk SSJ4 Gogeta/Omega Shenron.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 10:03 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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What about EoGT Goku...? shifty


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 10:07 PM
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NewGuy01
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Goku with a spirit bomb powered by 1 top-tier and 8 fodders is considered top-tier in Super.

Gogeta with a spirit bomb powered by every life form in the universe got neg'd by Omega Shenron.

I think the answer here is obvious.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 10:43 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Gogeta with a spirit bomb powered by every life form in the universe got neg'd by Omega Shenron.


What?


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 10:46 PM
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NewGuy01
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fugg, I got it mixed up. It was the Big Bang Kamehameha that he tanked, and the Universal Spirit Bomb that defeated him.

>takes L


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Last edited by NewGuy01 on Nov 25th, 2017 at 10:53 PM

Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 10:51 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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thumb up

Not exactly "tanked", as it did considerable damage - reverting him to Syn Shenron form, even. The next beam was going to kill him.

And Goku was in his base kid form (worn out, too) when he killed OS with the bomb.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 10:58 PM
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NewGuy01
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Still though, universe spirit bomb >>>>>>>>> 8 person spirit bomb >> a few ningens spirit sword > Fusion Zamasu


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2017 11:08 PM
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Galan007
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[nerdery]

Honestly depends how high you 'power scale' DBS forms/powers like SSG, SSB, MSSB, GoDs, etc.



But if you take all statements made in GT at face value, this is how the power scaling looks...

*Kid Goku stated that base Rildo was "even MORE POWERFUL than Majin Boo" -- yet BASE GT Goku was able to match him.
ie. base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo(Goku was likely using Pure/Kid Boo as a comparison) ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.

*Rildo then stated that Goku's power had increased "A HUNDRED fold" when he transformed to SSJ1(which is double what the SSJ multiplier was in Z.)
ie. SSJ GT Goku (100x)> base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.


*Now, even if the SSJ2 & SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(in all likelihood, they were probably much greater given the SSJ1 multiplier), it still means SSJ2 GT Goku would have been 200x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku would have been 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.


*As for SSJ4: Super Baby Vegeta(2) was able to utterly stomp SSJ3 GT Goku... After Goku transformed into SSJ4, however, he not only stomped the bejesus out of SBV2, he was also roughly on par with Golden Oozaru Baby... Who was 10x> SBV2(that's the canon Oozaru multiplier.) This means SSJ4 was no less than 10x SSJ3(that's definitely a lowball figure, mind you, but it can be incontrovertibly substantiated.) So in a nutshell, that puts n00b SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, at the very least.

-It's also worth noting that Goku stated Super Baby Vegeta(1) had "the most awesome ki he'd EVER felt"... And given that Z is canon to GT, this serves as additional proof that Baby Vegeta(1)-level power(and above) was truly intended to be >>>>>>> anything in Z(Boohan and Vegito notwithstanding.) So yeah...


*Anywho, once we got to the Shadow Dragon saga we saw that there were FAR greater depths to Goku's SSJ4 than had been previously shown.
ie. SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(see his fight with Syn Shenron) >>> n00b SSJ4 Goku ala the Baby saga.

-This is important where Vegeta is concerned, because based on their ability to use the Fusion Dance in the first place, we know that SSJ4 Vegeta ~ SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(remember, the fusees must have roughly the same PL in order to fuse, and neither Goku or Vegeta were stated to have raised or lowered their powers prior to fusing.)


*Then consider that Omega Shenron(who stated he was "AT LEAST 10x stronger than his previous form - possibly even more") was able to effortlessly trounce SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta simultaneously -- and again, they were both, as a lowball figure, no less than 8,000x more powerful than SSJ3 Z Goku.


*Finally, you have SSJ4 Gogeta, who utterly DESTROYED Omega Shenron in one of the most one-sided shit-stomps I've ever seen in DB.


{Note}
I'm not even counting EoGT Goku for obvious reasons. He was already AT LEAST 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, per power scaling...AND had an additional 100 years of "training with Shenron" under his belt...AND had fused with the fuggin Dragon Balls. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he had ascended to the theoretical SSJ5 Bulma mentioned(or possibly even higher.) The dude's implied power is f*cking absurd.



tl;dr
If we use power scaling alone, the 'great powers' of GT were, in all likelihood, tenS of thousandS of timeS more powerful than the 'great powers' of Z... And if that is indeed the case, they should absolutely be able to contend with DBS/God-level power.

If we were to compare *feats* exclusively, however, this would be a tremendously lop-sided matchup, as DBS/God-level *feats* are beyond most *feats* from GT... But tbf, large-scale feats have never really been an accurate means of gauging powers in DB. If they were, then Roshi...with a PL of 180...would be one of the most powerful beings in the mythos, cuz moon-busting. So take that for what it's worth... /shrug

[/nerdery] embarrasment


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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 26th, 2017 at 12:11 AM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 12:05 AM
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StiltmanFTW
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Good post, enjoyed it thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Roshi...with a PL of 180... embarrasment


You're referring to this, I guess?

(please log in to view the image)

Only remember that one time Bulma measured him with scouter in the anime (filler or not?):

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 12:26 AM
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carver9
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Good post Galan. Strength, speed, and durability fts are good in DB but we always based things off of power scaling. I have no take aways from your post and an argument can be made for DBGT.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 12:43 AM
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NewGuy01
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quote:
*Kid Goku stated that base Rildo was "even MORE POWERFUL than Majin Boo" -- yet BASE GT Goku was able to match him.
ie. base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo(Goku was likely using Pure/Kid Boo as a comparison) ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.


It's not unfounded by feats, either. Goku was able to break out of a dimension in base, not unlike how Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks did.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 01:03 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good post, enjoyed it thumb up



You're referring to this, I guess?

(please log in to view the image)

Only remember that one time Bulma measured him with scouter in the anime (filler or not?):

(please log in to view the image)
Thanks! thumb up


Not filler, as the Daizenshuu has Roshi at 139 as well:
(please log in to view the image)


I just went with the 180 that 'Weekly Jump' credits him with as a maximum figure, given that Roshi was 'bulked up' when he moon-busted.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Good post Galan. Strength, speed, and durability fts are good in DB but we always based things off of power scaling. I have no take aways from your post and an argument can be made for DBGT.
Awesome.

Glad it's not as confusing to you guys as I thought it might be after reading through it a second time, lol.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 26th, 2017 at 01:15 AM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 01:09 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's not unfounded by feats, either. Goku was able to break out of a dimension in base, not unlike how Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks did.
True. thumb up


Base GT Goku also effortlessly trounced Cell(I'm assuming he would've still been SPC) and Freeza, as though they were laughably weak fodder. What's more, Cell and Freeza had both been training extensively, and were each a good deal more powerful than they originally were.

*And for what it's worth- even at the start of BoG/DBS, base Goku was still weaker than Freeza. So yeah...


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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 26th, 2017 at 01:27 AM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 01:13 AM
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DeadpoolXXX
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
[nerdery]

Honestly depends how high you 'power scale' DBS forms/powers like SSG, SSB, MSSB, GoDs, etc.



But if you take all statements made in GT at face value, this is how the power scaling looks...

*Kid Goku stated that base Rildo was "even MORE POWERFUL than Majin Boo" -- yet BASE GT Goku was able to match him.
ie. base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo(Goku was likely using Pure/Kid Boo as a comparison) ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.

*Rildo then stated that Goku's power had increased "A HUNDRED fold" when he transformed to SSJ1(which is double what the SSJ multiplier was in Z.)
ie. SSJ GT Goku (100x)> base GT Goku ~ base Rildo > Majin Boo ~ SSJ3 Z Goku.


*Now, even if the SSJ2 & SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(in all likelihood, they were probably much greater given the SSJ1 multiplier), it still means SSJ2 GT Goku would have been 200x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku would have been 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.


*As for SSJ4: Super Baby Vegeta(2) was able to utterly stomp SSJ3 GT Goku... After Goku transformed into SSJ4, however, he not only stomped the bejesus out of SBV2, he was also roughly on par with Golden Oozaru Baby... Who was 10x> SBV2(that's the canon Oozaru multiplier.) This means SSJ4 was no less than 10x SSJ3(that's definitely a lowball figure, mind you, but it can be incontrovertibly substantiated.) So in a nutshell, that puts n00b SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, at the very least.

-It's also worth noting that Goku stated Super Baby Vegeta(1) had "the most awesome ki he'd EVER felt"... And given that Z is canon to GT, this serves as additional proof that Baby Vegeta(1)-level power(and above) was truly intended to be >>>>>>> anything in Z(Boohan and Vegito notwithstanding.) So yeah...


*Anywho, once we got to the Shadow Dragon saga we saw that there were FAR greater depths to Goku's SSJ4 than had been previously shown.
ie. SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(see his fight with Syn Shenron) >>> n00b SSJ4 Goku ala the Baby saga.

-This is important where Vegeta is concerned, because based on their ability to use the Fusion Dance in the first place, we know that SSJ4 Vegeta ~ SSJ4 'limits surpassed' Goku(remember, the fusees must have roughly the same PL in order to fuse, and neither Goku or Vegeta were stated to have raised or lowered their powers prior to fusing.)


*Then consider that Omega Shenron(who stated he was "AT LEAST 10x stronger than his previous form - possibly even more") was able to effortlessly trounce SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta simultaneously -- and again, they were both, as a lowball figure, no less than 8,000x more powerful than SSJ3 Z Goku.


*Finally, you have SSJ4 Gogeta, who utterly DESTROYED Omega Shenron in one of the most one-sided shit-stomps I've ever seen in DB.


{Note}
I'm not even counting EoGT Goku for obvious reasons. He was already AT LEAST 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, per power scaling...AND had an additional 100 years of "training with Shenron" under his belt...AND had fused with the fuggin Dragon Balls. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he had ascended to the theoretical SSJ5 Bulma mentioned(or possibly even higher.) The dude's implied power is f*cking absurd.



tl;dr
If we use power scaling alone, the 'great powers' of GT were, in all likelihood, tenS of thousandS of timeS more powerful than the 'great powers' of Z... And if that is indeed the case, they should absolutely be able to contend with DBS/God-level power.

If we were to compare *feats* exclusively, however, this would be a tremendously lop-sided matchup, as DBS/God-level *feats* are beyond most *feats* from GT... But tbf, large-scale feats have never really been an accurate means of gauging powers in DB. If they were, then Roshi...with a PL of 180...would be one of the most powerful beings in the mythos, cuz moon-busting. So take that for what it's worth... /shrug

[/nerdery] embarrasment
Fantastic post! Thanks a bunch for this. Hope you don't mind if I use it for future debates as reference. Great stuff. big grin

I just cant get passed the 8000x figure; it's insane and hard to even grasp! especially when we've seen how guys that are just 2x their opponent can dominate them easily: just look at SS2 Gohan v.s. Perfect Cell haha.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 01:32 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
Fantastic post! Thanks a bunch for this. Hope you don't mind if I use it for future debates as reference. Great stuff. big grin

I just cant get passed the 8000x figure; it's insane and hard to even grasp! especially when we've seen how guys that are just 2x their opponent can dominate them easily: just look at SS2 Gohan v.s. Perfect Cell haha.
You asked for power scaling, so I power scaled for ya. wink

Well, Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Gohan -- this means SSJ2 Gohan was LESS THAN 2x Perfect Cell, yet he [Cell] was still trounced with laughable ease(Gohan dropped him with 2 serious hits, iirc.) So just imagine if Gohan were able to beat Cell 8,000x easier... Because *that's* how easily a n00b SSJ4 Goku could stomp him on paper. #CrayCray

In short, I totally agree with you- it's nearly impossible to wrap your head around multipliers like this... Especially given that the 8,000x figure is actually just a very low-end/conservative starting point. Because even during the Baby arc when he was still a n00b, SSJ4 Goku was logically a good deal more powerful than that -- and his power increased dramatically by the final arc when he surpassed his limitations against the Shenron family.

Also remember: that is *just* SSJ4 Goku. SSJ4 Vegeta was just as powerful as him(his SSJ4 amp was actually FAR more impressive.) However, a being like Omega Shenron makes both of their powers look infantile by comparison... And whatever [vast] difference exists between Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta -- a MUCH larger difference exists between Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta. Utterly asinine levels of power here...


From a storytelling/plot standpoint, GT was crap most of the time. That said, it's hard to deny how phucking powerful its characters were intended to be. /shrug


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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 26th, 2017 at 02:00 AM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 01:57 AM
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NewGuy01
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Yeah, but it's also inconsistent. Sometimes larger differences like 10x aren't that dramatic.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 02:00 AM
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Galan007
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Even so... We're talking differences of thousandS upon thousandS of times here.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 02:02 AM
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Ridley_Prime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
True. thumb up


Base GT Goku also effortlessly trounced Cell(I'm assuming he would've still been SPC) and Freeza, as though they were laughably weak fodder. What's more, Cell and Freeza had both been training extensively, and were each a good deal more powerful than they originally were.

*And for what it's worth- even at the start of BoG/DBS, base Goku was still weaker than Freeza. So yeah...

They certainly didnít look more powerful than they were before (Frieza and Cell in GT), but meh. Just glad Golden Frieza retconned that shit.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 03:19 AM
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