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GT vs. DBS
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Placidity
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I'd be interested to see the power scaling for DBS though - excluding low-end outliers.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 05:05 AM
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Kento
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The problem with scaling in DBS comes from SSG, and SSB. There isn't anything, in the anime, to compare them too.

Base Vegeta is able to effortlessly beat ssj3 Gotenks. SO, even at low ends, saying Base Vegeta was even just = to ssj3 Gotenks then ssj3 Goku would be 3,200x his ssj3 Buu Saga self.

But then there is SSG, which who knows how much that boosts, and even if we assume that SSB is just 50x SSG because it's just super saiyan added onto it, then not even taking into account a boost from God Form, that's 160,000x his ssj3 Buu Saga. KKSSBx20 added, over 3 million times Kid Buu's power. And that's Low balling it all, and not adding in whatever multiplier that SSG puts in.

DBS Manga scaling, it's a lot weaker than the anime, and GT. But I think SSG, and SSB grant bigger power boosts in the manga than in the anime.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 05:38 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Yeah, if you scale off of Base Goku > RoF FF Frieza, or Base Vegeta >> SSJ3 Gotenks...DBS shitstomps GT in terms of scaling.

Regardless, God ki is just way too tremendous of a boost, I feel, for GT to even compete. SSJB Goku as of right now is way more than tens of thousands of times stronger than SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku, imo, when you consider that:

The gap between SSJ3 and SSJG is implied to be MONUMENTALLY larger than the gap between SSJ3 and base. For one, when Goku is going from SSJ3 to SSJG against Toppo, he notes he'll be on a completely different level from before. Secondly, Toppo WITHOUT using his god ki was effortlessly stomping SSJ3 Goku, but when Goku went SSJG, Toppo began to use his god ki, (which, again, is a TREMENDOUS boost,) and SSJG Goku was stalemating him, more or less.

So lets lowball and say SSJG is roughly a 1000x boost to SSJ3. You still have SSJB, which is noted multiple times to be the SS form of SSJG. Furthermore, we see SSJB perform MONUMENTALLY better against Jiren than SSJG did. And base Kefla was absolutely annihilating SSJG Goku, but SSJB Goku put up a much better fight against SS Kefla. So I think it's safe to say SSJB is at least a 50x boost to SSJG.

1000x50 = SSJB is roughly 50,000 times stronger than current SSJ3, which is considerably stronger than Buu Saga SSJ3. This isn't factoring KK x20, which would put Goku a whopping 1,000,000x stronger than current SSJ3. Again, this is while completely lowballing the SSJ3 to SSJG multiplier.

I'm sorry, but SSJB Goku alone bodies GT. No need for Beerus.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 06:32 AM
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NewGuy01
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quote:
So lets lowball and say SSJG is roughly a 1000x boost to SSJ3.


laughing out loud

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 07:24 AM
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Inedian
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EoGT Goku complety destroys anyone from Super except Zeno.

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 09:51 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
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Uhh, it is a lowball.

Again, Goku notes that SSJG is on a completely different level relative to base-SSJ3. Toppo without using god ki was absolutely bodying SSJ3 without effort, then SSJG comes along and he's matching a Toppo that is using god ki.

The absolute lowest the boost from SSJ3 to SSJG could be is 400x, but that's an absolutely insane lowball.

But if we roll with it being a 400x boost to Buu Saga SSJ3 (lmfaooooooo) then we can use SSJB as a 50x boost for a total of about 20,000x. Then you get KKx20 for a 400,000x boost. SSJ4 Gogeta could probably compete with that. Omega/SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta get donkeystomped, though.


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Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Nov 26th, 2017 at 02:28 PM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 02:22 PM
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carver9
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I agree with Supreme. Anyways, in DBS, Goku has shown that in base, he is far above anything in Z. He took on 3 Buu level beings in the T.O.P. and was stomping them. Then we have Beerus vs base Goku and Goku was holding his own, to the point where Whis had to stop it because he said they were going to destroy everything. Goku powering up to Super Saiyan 2 and his power being compared to the Gods. The list is long.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 03:08 PM
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Kento
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One of the biggest problems with DBS though is the inconsistency in power levels. GT never really had that problem. They just dropped the ball in every other way.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 03:18 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Regardless, even if you lowball the life out of Super, it's still CONSIDERABLY more powerful than GT. Beerus would Solo GT.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 03:25 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kento
One of the biggest problems with DBS though is the inconsistency in power levels. GT never really had that problem. They just dropped the ball in every other way.


You can't use Goku as the person that makes the show inconsistent. He ALWAYS hold back. The only time I've seen him go all out was during his first fight with Beerus and against Jiren. FYI...he was trying to kill Roshi, Krillin, and Android 18.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 03:29 PM
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Kento
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
You can't use Goku as the person that makes the show inconsistent. He ALWAYS hold back. The only time I've seen him go all out was during his first fight with Beerus and against Jiren. FYI...he was trying to kill Roshi, Krillin, and Android 18.
Cause, yes its only Goku who is inconsistent.. Not Vegeta at all... The one who is not known to ever hold back, and still has just as much inconsistency being able to take someone on in base form in the show, and then not just own them in super saiyan forms.. Or for a fact we know Goku and Vegeta's are equal in power except with kaioken or UI, and Goku can fight people who give Vegeta trouble in super saiyan, but stay in his base.


And you bring up Goku vs Krillen/Roshi against me more than cdtm brings up Superman in DB Super thread... When I've never said anything about that at all.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 03:52 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Placidity
I'd be interested to see the power scaling for DBS though - excluding low-end outliers.
That's the thing, there ISN'T really a way to power scale DBS with any sort of accuracy(contrary to what some of the people in this very thread are trying to do.)

All we know is that current base Goku and Vegeta are > SSJ3 Gotenks and 4th form Freeza(RoF). Aside from that, we just know that SSG is > base to *some* degree, SSB is > SSG to *some* degree, MSSB is > SSB to *some* degree, Beerus is > MSSB to *some* degree, and so on and so forth. People are throwing around multipliers in the hundreds of thousands here, but that's all just personal conjecture. Again: NO God-level multipliers have been referenced or alluded to by any canonical source. It's all just speculation at this point.

...At least GT gave us tangible figures/powers/amps to work with, which allows us to ballpark power scale with at least *some* level of accuracy. /shrug


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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 26th, 2017 at 04:47 PM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 04:41 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Well, if we operate under the logic that current base Goku is > SSJ3 Gotenks...that would make current SSJ3 Goku at least 400x stronger than Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku. And based on the manga, SSJG is at least a 400x boost to SSJ3. Which would make SSJG 160,000 times stronger than Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku. Then there's SSJB....

While the exact multipliers may not be certain, characters in DBS are at WORST capable of godstomping the most powerful characters in GT.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 05:15 PM
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Galan007
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Again, the notion that DBS-era characters are 'hundreds of thousands of times' beyond Z-era characters is entirely your personal opinion/conjecture. If I said the multipliers were nowhere near what you're claiming, you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong one way or the other.

...And that is, essentially, the crux of my previous statement: as of now, DBS multipliers are entirely theoretical/fan-made, and will vary from person to person. So again, there is NO way to power scale DBS with any sort of accuracy at this point in time... There just isn't any definitive canonical evidence to help narrow it down. /shrug


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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 26th, 2017 at 05:59 PM

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 05:48 PM
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Kento
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, the notion that DBS-era characters are 'hundreds of thousands of times' beyond Z-era characters is entirely your personal opinion/conjecture. If I said the multipliers were nowhere near what you're claiming, you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong one way or the other.

...Which is the crux of my previous statement: as of now, DBS multipliers are entirely theoretical/fan-made, and will vary from person to person. So again, there is NO way to power scale DBS with any sort of accuracy at this point in time.
Even taking away what SSG, and SSB amp, Goku in Super is 64,000x stronger than Kid Buu by scaling what we do know and can scale, by making his base just 8x stronger, and being equal to ssj3 Gotenks, which isn't even true as the base is stronger than ssj3 Gotenks, and then adding the kaiokenx20.

So even your lowballing figure of GT Goku with every amp, doesn't stack to the known amps of Super, with lowballing.

We know GT's Goku's base is > Kid Buu. So lets high ball it and say he's 5x stronger in base than Kid Buu was. Even with all the amps he doesn't add up.

Lets just start with the last known figure we had for Goku (Even though his base had clearly grown) which is 3 million. 150 million for ssj. 300 million for ssj2. 1,200,000,000 for ssj3.

Lets just say for simplicity sake that, Both GT and Super Goku start at base or 1,200,000,000.

So ssj Super makes him 60 billion. And GT goes to 120 billion. So GT Goku has the head start.

ssj2, 120 billion, 240 billion.

ssj3 480 billion, and 960 billion

Then they equal out with SSJ4, and Kaiokenx20. 9,600,000,000,000.

Now we know that Base GT Goku is stronger than 1,200,000,000. Because he's stronger than Kid Buu. We do not however know an exact measurement.

However we know base Goku is at least 8x stronger than Kid Buu, so his base would start out at around 9,600,000,000.

So no matter where we start at, even if SSG, and SSB are merely 2x each, they scaling for Super is still higher, with lowballing for each series.

Alright lets even say that, GT Goku's base it, 5x stronger, a little high balling but, say he starts at 6 billion. And lets also say that each transformation is doubled just like ssj is.

SSJ - 600 Billion
ssj2 - 2,400,000,000,000
ssj3 - 19,200,000,000,000
ssj4 - 192 trillion.

Now Super Goku, his base is the 9,600,000,000 and we say that ssg, and ssb adds the lowest possible of 2x each transformation.

ssj - 480 billion
ssj2 - 960 billion
ssj3 - 3,840,000,000,000
ssg - 7,680,000,000,000
ssb - 15,360,000,000,000
ssbkkx20 - 307 trillion

GT starts out stronger but in the end, even lowballing super transformations and putting GT Goku's base higher than it probably is, the end result is Super Goku is twice as powerful.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 06:37 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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There is no way to do this that ends with GT having any sort of chance.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 07:02 PM
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DeadpoolXXX
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kento
Even taking away what SSG, and SSB amp, Goku in Super is 64,000x stronger than Kid Buu by scaling
This honestly makes no sense at all to me. It really does seem like the scaling for DBS is based on opinions like galen said.

On a diiferent note- why in the heck is anyone still using gotenks as a gauge? Akira has tooned the crap out of him in DBS. hes little more than a joke character these days. i'm definitely not going to act like gotenks is still intended to be stronger than ssj3 goku either. that may have been the case when Akira first wrote the buu story, but it was clear during the BOG series that goku and vegeta were the strongest saiyans, period [even before the god amps and such]. Afterall Akira himself said in an interview that he rarely ever remembers what he writes and the buu story is over 20 years old!

confused

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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There is no way to do this that ends with GT having any sort of chance.
Your going to hop on any bandwagon that puts DBS over Gt, but your scaling isn't any better tbh. confused


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 08:01 PM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Again, Goku notes that SSJG is on a completely different level relative to base-SSJ3.


Okay? So what? Your argument would make sense if the multipliers upward from SSJ weren't so low. It's obvious that SSJ (being a 50x multiplier) was "on a completely different level" than base in the Namek saga, whereas SSJ2 and SSJ3 (being 2x and 4x boosts respectively) were relatively minor upgrades. Another 50x boost would be more than enough to qualify as being "on a completely different level" than SSJ without being a lowball whatsoever. laughing out loud

quote:
Toppo without using god ki was absolutely bodying SSJ3 without effort, then SSJG comes along and he's matching a Toppo that is using god ki.


Again, so what? We don't have any way of measuring how much stronger Toppo became, so the fact that Goku closed the gap doesn't tell us anything concrete, let alone that he became a thousand times stronger. You're better than this. laughing out loud

quote:
The absolute lowest the boost from SSJ3 to SSJG could be is 400x, but that's an absolutely insane lowball.


Nonsense. Also, as for your SSJB=50x SSJG claim, take another look at the manga's rendition of the Hit fight. It's stated clear as day there that a SSJG is stronger than a SSJB operating at 10%.

Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 08:02 PM
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Kento
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
This honestly makes no sense at all to me. It really does seem like the scaling for DBS is based on opinions like galen said.

On a diiferent note- why in the heck is anyone still using gotenks as a gauge? Akira has tooned the crap out of him in DBS. hes little more than a joke character these days. i'm definitely not going to act like gotenks is still intended to be stronger than ssj3 goku either. that may have been the case when Akira first wrote the buu story, but it was clear during the BOG series that goku and vegeta were the strongest saiyans, period [even before the god amps and such]. Afterall Akira himself said in an interview that he rarely ever remembers what he writes and the buu story is over 20 years old!

confused


Super's gauge is really wack, at least GT has the whole, 20 years after Buu.

And besides one scene against Tagoma, Gotenks hasn't been used as in joke character gags during fights. The battle against Vegeta's clone was very serious type fight, and in base took the hits from Gotenks as easily as Cell took hits from Super Vegeta. In fact Super seems to go out of the way to not even use Gotenks... as for the BoG arc in the anime, Gotenks never goes ssj3. Not that it would have mattered anyway.

And Toriyama doesn't need to remember what he wrote, when Toei is the one writing the anime and who wrote GT anyway. Toriyama just gives toei the outline for super anime.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2017 09:09 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Yeah, if you scale off of Base Goku > RoF FF Frieza, or Base Vegeta >> SSJ3 Gotenks...DBS shitstomps GT in terms of scaling.

Regardless, God ki is just way too tremendous of a boost, I feel, for GT to even compete. SSJB Goku as of right now is way more than tens of thousands of times stronger than SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku, imo, when you consider that:

The gap between SSJ3 and SSJG is implied to be MONUMENTALLY larger than the gap between SSJ3 and base. For one, when Goku is going from SSJ3 to SSJG against Toppo, he notes he'll be on a completely different level from before. Secondly, Toppo WITHOUT using his god ki was effortlessly stomping SSJ3 Goku, but when Goku went SSJG, Toppo began to use his god ki, (which, again, is a TREMENDOUS boost,) and SSJG Goku was stalemating him, more or less.

So lets lowball and say SSJG is roughly a 1000x boost to SSJ3. You still have SSJB, which is noted multiple times to be the SS form of SSJG. Furthermore, we see SSJB perform MONUMENTALLY better against Jiren than SSJG did. And base Kefla was absolutely annihilating SSJG Goku, but SSJB Goku put up a much better fight against SS Kefla. So I think it's safe to say SSJB is at least a 50x boost to SSJG.

1000x50 = SSJB is roughly 50,000 times stronger than current SSJ3, which is considerably stronger than Buu Saga SSJ3. This isn't factoring KK x20, which would put Goku a whopping 1,000,000x stronger than current SSJ3. Again, this is while completely lowballing the SSJ3 to SSJG multiplier.

I'm sorry, but SSJB Goku alone bodies GT. No need for Beerus.


Base Goku was also holding his own with SSJ2 Caulifa.

Proving skill can compete with power levels.


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