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I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...
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Steve Zodiac
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I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

I do have issues with this gender identity epidemic...

Is it just me or is the scale of it backed by very little Science.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:23 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I do have issues with this gender identity epidemic...

Is it just me or is the scale of it backed by very little Science.


You can identify as whatever you want. Just don't expect people to identify you as anything beyond how you physically present yourself.

More specifically - because I dislike clever little sayings that are ambiguous but don't actually saying anything specific - I will not identify you as Wolfkin if you are not in full Furry getup. I will just call your sir/he/him or ma'am/she/her.

I'm okay with getting identify-creative. And I have enough respect for people around me to refer to people the way they prefer if I think they provide something good or valuable to me or the people I care about (such as friendship or intellectual conversation).


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Last edited by dadudemon on Dec 1st, 2017 at 03:55 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:45 PM
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Emperordmb
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By liberal you mean leftist, because actual liberalism and socialism are mutually exclusive ideologies.

Despite the way people make use of the term, liberalism is not synonymous left-wing.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:50 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
By liberal you mean leftist, because actual liberalism and socialism are mutually exclusive ideologies.

Despite the way people make use of the term, liberalism is not synonymous left-wing.
Haha silly rabbit with your social media meaningless "leftisit" hashtag. In the UK liberal is a distinct political group that even had a liberal party the left wing border of it and the right wing border of Labour a socialist party has always had a fluid boundary. But you knew that... right?


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Last edited by Steve Zodiac on Dec 1st, 2017 at 03:59 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:53 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
You can identify as whatever you want. Just don't expect people to identify you as anything beyond how you physically present yourself.

More specifically - because I dislike clever little sayings that are ambiguous but don't actually saying anything specific - I will no identify you as Wolfkin if you are not in full Furry getup. I will just call your sir/he/him or ma'am/she/her.

I'm okay with getting identify-creative. And I have enough respect for people around me to refer to people the way they prefer if I think they provide something good or valuable to me or the people I care about (such as friendship or intellectual conversation).
But how do you feel about minors being able to identify however they want not based on Biology, but based on an agenda driven fashion... Which this may or may not be.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:55 PM
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Emperordmb
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Gender: Male
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Haha silly rabbit with your social media meaningless "leftisit" hashtag.

I'm not using leftist as a pejorative, I'm saying being left-wing doesn't automatically make you a liberal.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:57 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
But how do you feel about minors being able to identify however they want not based on Biology, but based on an agenda driven fashion... Which this may or may not be.


My answer is the same no matter the age.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:58 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
My answer is the same no matter the age.
So you would be against the age of consent?


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 03:59 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So you would be against the age of consent?


Explain to me how those are the same.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:01 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Explain to me how those are the same.


Surely choosing your gender is based on your sexuality.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:02 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Surely choosing your gender is based on your sexuality.


I'm open to changing my mind if you can provide scholarly articles on this.

But I highly doubt you're correct.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:04 PM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Gender: Male
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan

My take is that the concept of "gender identity" was a retarded mistake. What we should do is live in a society where people are identified as male or female based on their biology, but are at perfect liberty to act or dress or present themselves in ways that define traditional gender roles.

It's much easier to argue "I'm not going to let you force me to view and refer to your identity a certain way" than it is to say "I'm not going to let you dress, behave, and present yourself how you want to."


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:04 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm open to changing my mind if you can provide scholarly articles on this.

But I highly doubt you're correct.


I would doubt any studies have been done however. You are saying you don't see gender/sex being linked inherently to sexuality. So what is the biological purpose of gender?


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:06 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I would doubt any studies have been done however. You are saying you don't see gender/sex being linked inherently to sexuality. So what is the biological purpose of gender?


These are questions you need to answer, not me.

I feel they are irrelevant to my position of allowing others to identify however they wish. Therefore, they are not appropriate for me to answer. They are non sequitur to my position.

It's like asking me why I lock my door at night when watermelon tastes good. Doesn't make any sense at all.

"You think children can be sexualized by adults if you think they can identify by any gender they choose."


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Last edited by dadudemon on Dec 1st, 2017 at 04:11 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:08 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
These are questions you need to answer, not me.

I don't want to answer them because I feel they are irrelevant to my position of allowing others to identify however they wish.
The biological function of gender is clear, the mixing of gametes for variation. It confers many advantages to asexual propagation.

So I'll ask again, do you see Gender as not linked to sexuality and propagation.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:11 PM
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dadudemon
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Location: Bacta Tank.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
The biological function of gender is clear, the mixing of gametes for variation. It confers many advantages to asexual propagation.

So I'll ask again, do you see Gender as not linked to sexuality and propagation.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
These are questions you need to answer, not me.

I feel they are irrelevant to my position of allowing others to identify however they wish. Therefore, they are not appropriate for me to answer. They are non sequitur to my position.

It's like asking me why I lock my door at night when watermelon tastes good. Doesn't make any sense at all.

"You think children can be sexualized by adults if you think they can identify by any gender they choose."


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:11 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So I'll ask again, do you see Gender as not linked to sexuality and propagation.


Define gender.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:12 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nothing to see here
When we get to unquotable posting... It usually means impasse. Come back when you can show me Gender and Sexuality are not linked, I'm sure lots of credible sources will back this position of yours up... However that is what many are buying into.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:16 PM
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dadudemon
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Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
When we get to unquotable posting... It usually means impasse. Come back when you can show me Gender and Sexuality are not linked, I'm sure lots of credible sources will back this position of yours up... However that is what many are buying into.


My position?

When did I take that position?


But I do believe you took the positive position:



quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Surely choosing your gender is based on your sexuality.


You get backed to me when you can prove that sexuality and gender are the same (based on each other, whatever...play your word games with someone else).

Find me some scholarly articles for it.

Get back to me when you have a good point.

Address my points, first, however, before you descend down a point that is irrelevant to my position, first. Start there. Then, if you've worked the conversation into something satisfactory, we can start a new thread, which is independent of this thread topic, to discuss your idea of gender and sexuality.


First, start with defining what gender is in the context you are using it. Start there before moving on to anything else.


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Last edited by dadudemon on Dec 1st, 2017 at 04:20 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:18 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm pretty liberal, a socialist even but...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Define gender.
From a biological or cultural point of view. Because biologically it is interchangeable with sex. Culturally it can be more fluid. So you are saying Children are free to choose their Gender in either context? And I have been coming in here from both a biological and cultural standpoint as unlike some proponents of "Gender studies". I do not believe children are adequately informed to choose a sex beyond there biology. Clearly you do from your first post. and hat's more this child's choice must be respected.


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Last edited by Steve Zodiac on Dec 1st, 2017 at 04:23 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2017 04:19 PM
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