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US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake
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Surtur
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Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Sorry, hang on a second. How does any of this relate to cakes again? I thought we were discussing the cake thing. The thing at the top of the page, you know, the OP. As far as I know nobody has defended a Muslim for not baking a Mohammed cake, so I don't really understand where you're coming from. You seem to be using another scenario and projecting it onto this one, maybe? I don't know. We were talking about cakes and then you went off about Islam. Seems like a non-sequitur to me. Or should I say, a Non-SequiSurtur.
Oh god


Alright, I'll give you that one. That was pretty good.


Lol, I already told you this. I'm tired of the double standards in this country. These same people saying the Christian baker should be forced would not be saying a Muslim should be forced to do something that conflicts with their religion.

You can disagree with that, but I'm being quite clear as to why I'm mentioning this.

I heavily dislike Christianity, I don't enjoy defending it in any way.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:59 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol, I already told you this. I'm tired of the double standards in this country. These same people saying the Christian baker should be forced would not be saying a Muslim should be forced to do something that conflicts with their religion.

You can disagree with that, but I'm being quite clear as to why I'm mentioning this.

I heavily dislike Christianity, I don't enjoy defending it in any way.
What? How do you know? Has this happened, or is this 100% conjecture? Also, what does it have to do with the actual situation itself?


Besides, the scenarios are entirely different. Your scenario presents someone wanting a Mohammed cake, which is a very insulting thing to ask a Muslim, whilst the real-life scenario is just someone wanting a wedding cake.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:01 PM
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Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
What? How do you know? Has this happened, or is this 100% conjecture? Also, what does it have to do with the actual situation itself?


Besides, the scenarios are entirely different. Your scenario presents someone wanting a Mohammed cake, which is a very insulting thing to ask a Muslim, whilst the real-life scenario is just someone wanting a wedding cake.


It's not conjecture. We see it even right now lol. Look at what you *just* said. "It's very insulting to Muslims". And....? If the baker feels this is very insulting, what then?

I'm guessing it wouldn't matter at all if he felt it was very insulting, would it? Admit that. It would be *you* and others like you deciding on how offended he should or should not be. Tell me I'm wrong lol.

If the baker feels it would be very insulting to make him do this...should he be forced to do it? Yes or no.


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Last edited by Surtur on Dec 5th, 2017 at 05:08 PM

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:03 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not conjecture. We see it even right now lol. Look at what you *just* said. "It's very insulting to Muslims". And....? If the baker feels this is very insulting, what then?

I'm guessing it wouldn't matter at all if he felt it was very insulting, would it? Admit that. It would be *you* and others like you deciding on how offended he should or should not be. Tell me I'm wrong lol.
I could just go back to the last page and compile a bunch of my other posts that cover all of this, but that'd probably just take more time than just stating what I need again.


This scenario: A Christian, whose core religious beliefs include forgiveness for sins; loving thy neighbour; not judging, for that is God's right; doing to others as you would have done to yourself; is trying to claim that his making a gay wedding cake is 'against his religion' (it isn't).


Your fake scenario: A Muslim, one of whose core beliefs is to not create images of his prophet, denies a customer who wants him to make a cake of his prophet.


How in the name of sense and critical thinking can you not see the difference here?


Also, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with feelings or offence.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:08 PM
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Surtur
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Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
I could just go back to the last page and compile a bunch of my other posts that cover all of this, but that'd probably just take more time than just stating what I need again.


This scenario: A Christian, whose core religious beliefs include forgiveness for sins; loving thy neighbour; not judging, for that is God's right; doing to others as you would have done to yourself; is trying to claim that his making a gay wedding cake is 'against his religion' (it isn't).


Your fake scenario: A Muslim, one of whose core beliefs is to not create images of his prophet, denies a customer who wants him to make a cake of his prophet.


How in the name of sense and critical thinking can you not see the difference here?


Also, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with feelings or offence.


You just said the muslim shouldn't have to do it because it would be very insulting.

If the baker says making the cake would be very insulting, should he be forced to make it? Yes or no.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:09 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
You just said the muslim shouldn't have to do it because it would be very insulting.

If the baker says making the cake would be very insulting, should he be forced to make it? Yes or no.
No I didn't, I just said the person who'd be going to order the cake would be doing it to be insulting, which isn't the point, it was a side point. Reading comprehension mother ****er, can you use it?


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:10 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
No I didn't, I just said the person who'd be going to order the cake would be doing it to be insulting, which isn't the point, it was a side point. Reading comprehension mother ****er, can you use it?


Or they could be asking as a joke lol. Or to see if they'd do it.

Should the guy be forced to make the cake if he finds it very insulting? Yes or no.

Remember, dude was willing to stop making wedding cakes, which make up 40% of his business. He feels strongly about this. Who are you to say he is or is not as offended as a Muslim would be?


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:11 PM
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Emperordmb
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Scribble, I'm a Christian, I think the anti-gay shit is stupid and I disagree with it.

But answer the question. Do you think this man should be forced to express through a custom cake this message that he disagrees with? Yes or no. You can call him an ******* or idiot if you want, but should he have the right to say "no, I'm not going to make a cake with a message I disagree with"?


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:12 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Or they could be asking as a joke lol. Or to see if they'd do it.

Should the guy be forced to make the cake if he finds it very insulting? Yes or no.

Remember, dude was willing to stop making wedding cakes, which make up 40% of his business. He feels strongly about this. Who are you to say he is or is not as offended as a Muslim would be?
He shouldn't be forced to do it because it is against the core principles of his religion, not because of feelings. Just read my post and use your brain and maybe you'll actually figure out what's going on here, because you're creating fake agendas out of tiny parts of my posts whilst ignoring the rest, and now I'm just having to repeat myself again and again, and it's getting really tiring.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:14 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Scribble, I'm a Christian, I think the anti-gay shit is stupid and I disagree with it.

But answer the question. Do you think this man should be forced to express through a custom cake this message that he disagrees with? Yes or no. You can call him an ******* or idiot if you want, but should he have the right to say "no, I'm not going to make a cake with a message I disagree with"?
He runs the business, he can refuse anything he wants. I just think his use of 'religious reasons' as an excuse are completely bogus and that he's a massive hypocrite who doesn't understand his own religious creed.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:15 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
He shouldn't be forced to do it because it is against the core principles of his religion, not because of feelings. Just read my post and use your brain and maybe you'll actually figure out what's going on here, because you're creating fake agendas out of tiny parts of my posts whilst ignoring the rest, and now I'm just having to repeat myself again and again, and it's getting really tiring.


And this man feels so strongly about this being against his religion he is willing to lose FORTY PERCENT of his business.

If the baker is very offended by this should he be forced to make it? Your answer is clearly yes lol.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:16 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
If the baker is very offended by this should he be forced to make it? Your answer is clearly yes lol.
Boy is the egg on your face now, chuck.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:17 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Boy is the egg on your face now, chuck.


Not really, this is getting ridiculous. If the man would be very insulted over it because he feels it goes against his religion, that should be enough.

You don't get to decide how offended he should be or how important the gay thing is to that specific Christian lol.

A person should not be forced, period.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:19 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Not really, this is getting ridiculous. If the man would be very insulted over it because he feels it goes against his religion, that should be enough.

You don't get to decide how offended he should be or how important the gay thing is to that specific Christian lol.

A person should not be forced, period.
I'm not deciding anything, I clearly just stated that he should be allowed to do what he wants,
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
I just think his use of 'religious reasons' as an excuse are completely bogus and that he's a massive hypocrite who doesn't understand his own religious creed.

How are you not getting this? Are you on a slow day or something?


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:20 PM
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Surtur
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It's completely cool you think his reasons are bogus. My thing is, you don't get to decide that lol. You seem to get that, so good talk thumb up


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:24 PM
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Scribble
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I got that all along and never said anything about what should be done in the situation, just pointed out hypocrisy. You then went off about Muslims for ages, created my own political stance for me, argued against your invented political stance for me, got confused repeatedly, then eventually realised I'd never said anything of the sort and stopped.


Not really what I'd consider a "good talk", more of a "total waste of time for everyone", but sure.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:27 PM
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Surtur
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Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
I got that all along and never said anything about what should be done in the situation, just pointed out hypocrisy. You then went off about Muslims for ages, created my own political stance for me, argued against your invented political stance for me, got confused repeatedly, then eventually realised I'd never said anything of the sort and stopped.


Not really what I'd consider a "good talk", more of a "total waste of time for everyone", but sure.


Hate to break this to you, not a single post on this forum is not a waste of time lol.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:28 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Hate to break this to you, not a single post on this forum is not a waste of time lol.
Yeah, and all ice cream is ice cream. But some amounts of ice cream are much bigger than others, just like some wastes of time are much bigger than others.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:29 PM
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Emperordmb
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tbf Scribble if you prefaced everything with the statement that he shouldn't be forced to do it I doubt it would've turned into this lengthy back and forth.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:30 PM
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Surtur
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Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Yeah, and all ice cream is ice cream. But some amounts of ice cream are much bigger than others, just like some wastes of time are much bigger than others.


Hey when you're right you are right. Sort of like my "all transgenders are mentally ill, but the guy thinking he is 6 is way more mentally ill than most". I gotcha thumb up


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:30 PM
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