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Trump recognizes Jerusalem as capital of Israel
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Surtur
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Trump recognizes Jerusalem as capital of Israel, also plans to move embassy there

Trump officially recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital, orders embassy move for US

I'm curious if people think this is the right thing to do. If yes, why? If no, why?


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 02:26 AM
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jaden101
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I don't know enough about the situation with regards to Jerusalem and why it's so controversial for it to be the Israeli capital. I understand that large parts of it are on land seized by Israel but beyond that, not much.

I see from the news this morning that it has already incited a violent backlash and calls from the Hamas leader for a third intifada.

Seems to me a lot of people will die over something totally unnecessary.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 12:57 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Seems to me a lot of people will die over something totally unnecessary.
thumb up

Jerusalem is a holy city for Palestinians as well as Israelis, so both sides claim it as their capital city. Essentially, Trump is siding with the Israelis against the Palestinians.

If peace were truly the goal, this move is pointless and will cause a lot of damage. People will die, terrorism will increase, the peaceful Palestinian faction in the West Bank will no longer have any leverage and Hamas will be strengthened.

Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 04:00 PM
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Bashar Teg
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101

Seems to me a lot of people will die over something totally unnecessary.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218

If peace were truly the goal, this move is pointless and will cause a lot of damage. People will die, terrorism will increase, the peaceful Palestinian faction in the West Bank will no longer have any leverage and Hamas will be strengthened.


so lots of innocent people will suffer and die. whatever it takes to keep us distracted from trump's scandals.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 04:05 PM
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Robtard
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Yes on all the above. The State Department also warned Trumpco ahead of time that doing this will cause a wave of violence and breakdown talks/concessions. Trump didn't care.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 05:38 PM
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Surtur
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Because they have been so peaceful so far, right? So loving for the past 22 years?


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 05:48 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Because they have been so peaceful so far, right? So loving for the past 22 years?


^ A Red Herring, cos Trump can't be criticized

The point you're trying to distract from: This will cause MORE violence and further "Us Vs Them" sentiment in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 05:50 PM
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Bashar Teg
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sure let's also set every square mile of california on fire, because it's already on fire so what's the difference? wacko


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 05:50 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
^ A Red Herring, cos Trump can't be criticized

The point you're trying to distract from: This will cause MORE violence and further "Us Vs Them" sentiment in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.


I never said Trump can't be criticized. My point is Trump has a point. This has done nothing, we haven't achieved peace.

If some Islamic terrorists are going to throw a fit why should we capitulate to them?

Let me put it another way. These people were terrorists the day before Trump did this, just like they are the day after.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 05:57 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I never said Trump can't be criticized. My point is Trump has a point. This has done nothing, we haven't achieved peace.

If some Islamic terrorists are going to throw a fit why should we capitulate to them?


Here you go, sport. Already covered above:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218

If peace were truly the goal, this move is pointless and will cause a lot of damage. People will die, terrorism will increase, the peaceful Palestinian faction in the West Bank will no longer have any leverage and Hamas will be strengthened.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 05:58 PM
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Surtur
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The goal is to do something he said he'd do, that other presidents said they would do, but failed.

The Knesset is located in Jerusalem. It should be their capital. Islamists terrorists do not get to dictate our actions no more than they can dictate who draws a picture in a magazine.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:01 PM
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Robtard
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TIL: EVERY Palestinian is an "Islamic Terrorist"

One thing for sure, this will make it all that much easier for terrorist groups like Hamas to recruit young impressionable men and boys into their ranks. Islamic terrorist groups thrive on a strong "Islam Vs The West/Rest" mentality.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:09 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
TIL: EVERY Palestinian is an "Islamic Terrorist"

One thing for sure, this will make it all that much easier for terrorist groups like Hamas to recruit young impressionable men and boys into their ranks. Islamic terrorist groups thrive on a strong "Islam Vs The West/Rest" mentality.


I never said every single one is lol. The ones that are gonna go out and murder people over this? Yeah, they are.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:10 PM
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Adam_PoE
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
The goal is to do something he said he'd do, that other presidents said they would do, but failed.

The Knesset is located in Jerusalem. It should be their capital. Islamists terrorists do not get to dictate our actions no more than they can dictate who draws a picture in a magazine.


No other presidents have done this, because it is a bad idea. In fact, that is why Trump himself reversed his position on this after he was warned about the possible ramifications.

He is reversing position yet again to shore up his approval ratings with his base. Doing something needlessly provocative is not good foreign policy.

In any given situation, one can choose to "be right," or he can choose to do what works. And if the goal is to bring peace to the region, this strategy does the exact opposite of that.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:23 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No other presidents have done this, because it is a bad idea. In fact, that is why Trump himself reversed his position on this after he was warned about the possible ramifications.

He is reversing position yet again to shore up his approval ratings with his base. Doing something needlessly provocative is not good foreign policy.

In any given situation, one can choose to "be right," or he can choose to do what works. And if the goal is to bring peace to the region, this strategy does the exact opposite of that.


And having things as they are hasn't brought peace either. Next.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:41 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I never said every single one is lol. The ones that are gonna go out and murder people over this? Yeah, they are.
Youíre wrong on this issue. Ive been there man, ive seen it with my own eyes. Iíve been to Jerusalem and it was relatively peaceful.

The Palestinian controlled West Bank and Israelis are coexisting fine. In fact, thereís Israeli soldiers outside the Done of the Rock everyday enforcing Palestinian law that only Muslims are allowed at certain times of the day. As far as the West Bank is concerned everything thing is okay, more or less.

The other Palestinian controlled territory is held by Hamas, who refuse to negotiate with the Israelis. They are the only ones responsible for terrorism.

If you undermine the West Bank faction, which hinges on a shared Jerusalem. Then Hamas will get more support, more power than it already does.

Youíre definitely wrong on this one

Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:41 PM
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Firefly218
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And thatís such a shitty defeatist attitude also. That everything has always been bad, so doing good things is pointless and doing bad things doesnít matter.

Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:46 PM
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Surtur
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Okay and I am not talking about the peaceful ones. I am talking about the ones willing to go out and murder people over this. I'm not sure what is hard to get there, I never said they were all bad. But there is NO excuse for murder over this.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:51 PM
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Bashar Teg
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
And thatís such a shitty defeatist attitude also. That everything has always been bad, so doing good things is pointless and doing bad things doesnít matter.


it's just more of his pathetic strategy of "i suddenly and conveniently don't care about moral and ethical issues"


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:51 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
And thatís such a shitty defeatist attitude also. That everything has always been bad, so doing good things is pointless and doing bad things doesnít matter.


Why did Congress make the decision it did in 1995?


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2017 06:52 PM
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