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Ben Shapiro: The Cool Kids Philosopher
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BackFire
It's cute that you think people actually read the original article.


Since they have often mocked other posters when they think they post an article and don't read it...surely you are wrong.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 12:57 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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DarthSkywalker0 isn't Ziggy.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 12:57 AM
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Robtard
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Surt's been cheating on Ziggy then. Rather deplorable to do that, imho


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 12:59 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Surt's been cheating on Ziggy then. Rather deplorable to do that, imho


Why does this Ziggy person trigger you so much?


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:00 AM
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Robtard
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Are we now pretending you don't know who he is and you don't suck his cock-n-balls whenever he makes another account? Cute.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:02 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Are we now pretending you don't know who he is and you don't suck his cock-n-balls whenever he makes another account? Cute.


You seem to suggest he is someone who is a sock. I don't know all the history here. What did he do to you and why are you so upset over him?

Who was he before this? What was his previous name here?


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:03 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Are we now pretending you don't know who he is and you don't suck his cock-n-balls whenever he makes another account? Cute.


It is not very difficult. I am not Ziggy.

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:06 AM
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Surtur
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And facts are facts anyways. These folk really don't like their narratives being shut down lol.

Understandable I suppose. Also quite entertaining.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:08 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
It is not very difficult. I am not Ziggy.


We've moved past that, guy. Apologies on me mixing you with him then.

I'm talking about how Surt's pretending he doesn't know who Ziggy is, when they've had convos and Surt generally loves sucking on his tiny Alt-right cock. Hence my mistake


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:09 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
And facts are facts anyways. These folk really don't like their narratives being shut down lol.

Understandable I suppose. Also quite entertaining.


Or "Alt Facts", Surt. Did you forget already?


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:11 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
We've moved past that, guy. Apologies on me mixing you with him then.

I'm talking about how Surt's pretending he doesn't know who Ziggy is, when they've had convos and Surt generally loves sucking on his tiny Alt-right cock. Hence my mistake


If he is a sock like you say that seems to come back over and over I probably have conversed with him before.

And you keep getting triggered over it. It's hilarious.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:12 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Or "Alt Facts", Surt. Did you forget already?


If a fact is wrong please point it out.


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Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:13 AM
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Robtard
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Are you still trying to get me to prove that Sharpiro's pro genocide? It's not an argument I made and I said I don't know, sport.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 01:16 AM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So, I take it you didnt' actually read the article given you need me to summarize it for you?

Fine, I'll oblige.

Shapiro's own words:

He's basing this plan off


His belief that arabs are inherently evil:




Note Shapiros use of repeated the term "population" which would refer to all of the arabs in Palestine, not just terrorists.

This is even worse because, according to Shapiro, who thinks all palestians value the murder of Israelis. jews have a divine duty to kill all who want to attack them:


Shapiro believes
A. Arabs are all murderers who seek to kill jews.
B. Jews must kill all those who seek to kill them

Therefore, going by Shapiro's own stated beliefs,

C. Jews must kill all arabs in Palestine.

Who wanted to force an entire population out of their homes?

Hitler.

Who painted an entire race of people as inherently bad?

Hitler.

Who used this as justification to advocate for genocide?

Hitler.

Shapiro has an ideology strikingly similar to arguably the worst dictator in history.

But keep defending him thumb up
Please tell me you're not serious. Typical misinterpretation and emotional overreactions. For ****s sake I've heard him speak many times and I've never heard him condone violence against someone just based off their race, etc.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 02:08 AM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Point 3: I would never be so foolish to assume that black discrimination in the 1900s does not contribute to low income and net worth. Despite that this point is extraordinarily weak. As I have already discussed, many factors contribute to unemployment. All Shapiro is saying, is that single-motherhood contributes to low unemployment and income. This is empirically true for both whites and black. The effect is irrelevant to his point. Moving on.

Point 4: Again Robinson cites an article which is not exactly congruent with his conclusion.

Excerpts from Page 3:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/...emographics.pdf





The study cited notes the possible lack of accuracy it possesses. This is another vast oversimplification. Regression analyses are always going to be fraught with lack of constancy and control. I am not going to give an economic lesson, but I would look into Austrian theory on this subject if you are interested. There is an excellent paper written by William Willbanks which discusses the "Myth of a Racist Justice System." He concludes that poverty is more of a factor than race that determines a black man’s chance of being arrested. Personally, I am no fan of the police state. I think the state over arrests all of its citizens. I believe it is overaggressive and tyrannous and encroaches most of our civil liberties. That being said, I doubt race is a determinant factor.

This concludes the first third of the article. I will be working on the other two next.
thumb up


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 02:12 AM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
It is not very difficult. I am not Ziggy.
Who are you then ?


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 02:14 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Here's the thing though, everyone circlejerking each other here took the time to read through the much longer original article, so they don't really have an excuse to go "TLDR"


I disagree. I think most did not read it. They read a little bit and got the gist of it and closed the tab...according to browsing research.


Edit - His name was not Ziggy when he posted (I think). It was Zigtard. That's why Surt doesn't recognize the name?


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Last edited by dadudemon on Dec 12th, 2017 at 02:55 AM

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 02:51 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Are you still trying to get me to prove that Sharpiro's pro genocide? It's not an argument I made and I said I don't know, sport.


He hasn't addressed the pro genocide thing yet, so no I'm not trying to get you to do anything about that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit - His name was not Ziggy when he posted (I think). It was Zigtard. That's why Surt doesn't recognize the name?


Probably yeah.


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Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Last edited by Surtur on Dec 12th, 2017 at 03:27 AM

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 03:25 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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Well, it is time to move onto the second third of Robinson's critiques. Before I begin addressing Robinson's attack, I want to make it clear that I am not pro Isreal. I am pro-America. I do not want us involved in the conflict at all and moving the embassy to Jerusalem was a mistake for reasons which I won't discuss in this rebuttal. So while I am not in direct opposition to Robinson, I think the conclusions he draws are absurd.

Robinson begins by attacking a tweet Shapiro made seven years ago regarding the conflict in Isreal.
quote:
But, well, I don’t know what else to call a statement like this: “Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage.” (Shapiro followed it with the hashtag #SettlementsRock.) Arabs like to bomb crap and live in sewage. Perhaps I’m crazy. Perhaps there’s a definition of the word “racism” that wouldn’t include a statement like that. But since the statements “Black people are violent and want to live in sewage” or “Jews are violent and want to live in sewage” would both sound… somewhat racist, I don’t see how the conclusion can be avoided.


Shapiro's statement is quite simply untrue. The Isreali's are the ones responsible for terrible conditions of East Jerusalem, but that is another point entirely. What I find more egregious here, is Robinson's extreme jump to conclusions. So because Shapiro made a joke in poor taste seven years ago about Arabs and Isreali's he is, therefore, a racist. I do not think you can judge a man's character or opinion about race from a single ridiculous tweet. I also think this tweet contrasts most of his current statements on the subject. He rarely ever uses the pejorative term Arabs in his commentary on the issue. Evidence would be all of these articles where uses the term "Palestinian Arab or just Palestinian": https://www.dailywire.com/news/1199...o-ben-shapiro#, l=&q=Palestianian%20from%3Abenshapiro&src=typd&lang=en(that is hundreds of tweets). So does this tweet automatically make Shapiro a racist? No, that would be absurd. After this attack on Shapiro he makes a more substantive argument attacking a paper which Shapiro wrote on the Palstinian-Isreali conflict.

quote:
Shapiro’s thoughts about Arabs are all along similar lines. Usually conservatives are careful to draw a distinction: they are not condemning an ethnicity, but rather adherents to an ideology, namely Islamism. Not so with Shapiro: for him, the problem is not Islamism or even Islam writ large. It’s Arabs: “The Arab-Israeli conflict may be accurately described as a war between darkness and light. Those who argue against Israeli settlements—outposts of light in a dark territory—argue for the continued victory of night.” Arabs “value murder” while Israelis “value life,” and “where light fails, darkness engulfs.” Arabs are therefore, as an undifferentiated unit, a people of darkness. Palestinian Arabs are the worst of all: they are a “population rotten to the core… Palestinian Arabs must be fought on their own terms: as a people dedicated to an evil cause.” The “Arab Palestinian populace… by and large constitutes the most evil population on the face of the planet.” Since they’re “rotten to the core,” there’s no such thing as a good Arab: your evil is defined by your ethnicity, by being a member of the People of Darkness and Murder rather than the People of Goodness and Light. Again, it may just be my failure to understand Facts and Logic, but I am having trouble understanding how population-level generalizations about the moral characteristics of particular ethnic groups can be anything other than bigotry.


It is perfectly fair to say that Shapiro's comments here are incorrect and are inhumane. It would not be fair to assume that they indicate racism. Here is why. So let's deconstruct Shapiro's actual statements and Robinson's responses. It is very unfortunate the that the article being cited is no longer online. I have no way to check the veracity of Robinson's claims. So I'll give Robinson the benefit of the doubt and assume that the statements are accurate. Before I continue, It is worth saying that the article was made 9 years ago and may not accurately represent his views today. I do not think these statements are racist but are more accurately uninformed. I do not think it is fair to attack his use of the word Arab in this context as he is obviously referring to Palestinians, the same way people do when referencing whites during the civil war. Shapiro's thesis is that the Palestinianian government is terrorist he maintains today. Regardless of the truth to those statements, if one views the Palestine as a terrorist state his comments make complete sense. I do not think it is fair to call his statements "population generalizations". This would be equivalent to denounce someone for calling the south evil during the Civil War. The intent is not to generalize, but to explain one's thoughts on their behavior. The next statements made by Robinson are completely out of context and horribly unfair.

quote:
Shapiro has been clear about the implications of his view of Arabs as a dark and murderous people. He has said that “Secular Zionism[, which] requires that Arab citizens of Israel be guaranteed equal rights,” “has always provided the seeds of [Israel’s] destruction.” Instead, “God’s road map requires the Jews to kill those who seek to kill them.” Since Arabs universally “value murder,” I can’t see how this is anything other than a philosophical justification of genocide.


This one is 14 years old. He was 19 at the time of its publication. I think it is important to take it with a slight grain of salt. Regardless Robinson is severely misconstruing Ben. "The God's road map" is from Talmud Sanhedrin 72A. The conclusion he draws from that statement is that "Israel has the God-given obligation to defend itself against those who wish to destroy it." If you read the article and his later statements on this subject Shapiro simply wants Isreal to defend itself against the Palestinians. This is corroborated by his own statements on the subject. As noted in a later article, he denounces those who wish to call his beliefs genocide. It's important to note that he penned the second article in the same year as the first, so it is not a 180 so to speak. His comments were this, "It's time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis. Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn't a solution." He is obviously not calling for genocide, but he is willing to support Isreal's existence by force. I also was not able to find a quotation Robinson used, "'Since Arabs universally “value murder,”'". That is not said in either of the articles provided. Robinson continues by claiming that Shapiro wishes to deport every last Arab even the Isreali citizens. I do not think that is a fair interpretation of his claims. What Shapiro wants to do is, "In the short term, the establishment of a "Palestinian state" based in Judea, Samaria and Gaza cuts Israel to the bone. In some places, Israel would be an unthinkable 9 miles wide. I". He wants to create a Palestinian state to save Isreal. He does not want to send them miles away. He also is not doing this for racist reasons. His rationale is that they are trying to invade Isreal. I find this to be an absurd notion, but it is one that he has not espoused in over 14 years. Making a new Palestinian state is not genocide it is just poorly planned public policy. Regardless, this is not longer his current view. In a far more recent article in 2013, Shapiro called population transfer of Palestinians to be inhuman and unpractical.

quote:
Some on the right have proposed population transfer from the Gaza Strip or West Bank as a solution. This is both inhumane and impractical. Moving millions of Palestinians out of areas they have known for their entire lives will certainly not pave the way to peace. Moreover, these Palestinians will have no place to go, since their brethren across the Arab would prefer to keep them cooped up in dismal poverty than house them in their own lands.


quote:
Removing settlements is not the solution.


I think it is fair to say that he has changed his opinion on this subject. There is no evidence to indicate that he believes in genocide. I also think it is important to note that Shapiro did NOT support the Muslim ban and would not outright state his support for the travel ban. https://twitter.com/benshapiro/stat...5681921?lang=en This is not a guy who wishes to genocide a race or wants to ban them from this country. He has defended Arabs before including Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Majin Nawaz.

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 04:03 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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Robinson continues his slanderous rampage by attacking Shapiro's comments on George Zimmerman.

quote:
When it came to George Zimmerman, Shapiro concluded that “there’s no evidence of Zimmerman’s racism.” Bear in mind that Zimmerman: approached a stranger because they had a Confederate flag tattoo so he could brag about killing Trayvon Martin, got thrown out of a bar for calling someone a “******-lover,” ranted about his girlfriend sleeping with a “dirty Muslim,” tweeted that the lives of “black slime” don’t matter, labeled Barack Obama an “ignorant baboon,” posted memes comparing Michelle Obama to Chewbacca, and literally had a Confederate flag profile picture and sold paintings he did of said flag. (Oh, and he also murdered an unarmed black teenager and proudly posted a photo of the boy’s corpse on Twitter, but Shapiro has made it clear that he believes Trayvon Martin deserved to die.)


Ignorance of Zimmerman's transgressions does not necessitate racism. I am sure Shapiro would agree that each of Zimmerman's crimes is racist and xenophobic. There is no evidence to indicate that Shapiro knew any of these things when penning the article. To call Shapiro racist for supporting Zimmerman, would be equivalent to calling Thomas Sowell and Larry Elder racist because they supported him. Both of those individuals are black. Robinson continues prattling on by attacking Shapiro's comments on Obama. His comments are a bit absurd but do not indicate deep-seeded racism. That concludes this segment I will now add some of my own commentary on the article.

As I said in the beginning, I do not agree with Shapiro on Palestine. My gripes with the article reside in its overwhelming absurd accusations on Shapiro's character. The author attempts to mischaracterize comments made by a 19-year-old young columnist. Shapiro has backed tracked on nigh all of his statements, but Robinson seems determined to paint a genocidal maniac. I think it would be more accurate to call him a disciple of Irving Kristol then one of Adolf Hitler. Shapiro has been more respectful of Islam and Arabs then nigh any other young conservative commentator. He has spoken ad nauseam about his distaste for both Yiannopolous's and Trump's statements regarding Arabs. Shapiro has a lot of flaws specifically in regards to his foreign policy, but they do not automatically make him a racist and an idiot as Robinson would like you to believe.

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 04:03 AM
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