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Terrorist attack in NYC, explosion detonates near Times Square
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Nope. Fundamentalism is not the problem. As Sam Harris points out, an extremist Jainist is no threat to anyone.

It's the religion. Islam, Christianity, both have some horrible stuff. Of course one of those is a lot more concise about such things in their holy book. And they also are the religion that seem to be mainly responsible for terrorism in our current era(450 out o 452 suicide bomber attacks in 2015 were Islam).
Bruh I'm supposed to be studying don't be baiting me into drawing-out a long argument with that kind of response.

Yes Islam deserves criticism, Sam Harris is right. There are things in the Quran which are wrong and bad. But that doesn't mean Muslims are wrong and bad, right?

For example, a majority of Christians are sensible and rational enough to look past the things in the Bible that are wrong and bad. Just because Christianity has lots of wrong and bad ideas, does not mean that Christians themselves are wrong or bad.

And ultimately, demonizing Muslims as people is not productive. We need to be working WITH the Muslims, not AGAINST them. If we want to work towards reforming the middle east and bringing Islam up to modern humanitarian standards, we can't do that by fighting Muslims.

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 07:43 PM
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Flyattractor
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To bad Leftist Progressive "Standards" also turn out to be filled with as much "Wrong and Bad" if not more so then both Muslim and Christian Principals.

"Modern Humanitarian Standards" ....what a crock!


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 07:47 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SquallX
While youíre stupidity and lack of understating of intricacies blinds you to anything but youíre ideals of thruth!

I donít hate muslisms, I hate their dogma. Just like I hate the Catholics, or any other religious fanatics dogma.

You call me bigot because I speak truth now? Hilarious.

My rage as you call it, is against Muslims and their religious dogma. Come back and talk too me once youíve lost friends to those idealog.

Come back and talk to me, when youve see women burned by acids because her husband claimed she insulted his honor.

Till then, **** off! Continue to live in youíre useless bubble. After all, when shits gets tough, cowards like you cowers away, while other fight for youíre rights to call us bigots and all those nice words.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Your hatred, bigotry and rage are palpable, guy. Work on that, or it will eat you from the inside.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 07:52 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
Bruh I'm supposed to be studying don't be baiting me into drawing-out a long argument with that kind of response.

Yes Islam deserves criticism, Sam Harris is right. There are things in the Quran which are wrong and bad. But that doesn't mean Muslims are wrong and bad, right?

For example, a majority of Christians are sensible and rational enough to look past the things in the Bible that are wrong and bad. Just because Christianity has lots of wrong and bad ideas, does not mean that Christians themselves are wrong or bad.

And ultimately, demonizing Muslims as people is not productive. We need to be working WITH the Muslims, not AGAINST them. If we want to work towards reforming the middle east and bringing Islam up to modern humanitarian standards, we can't do that by fighting Muslims.


It's not the people, it's the religion. That is my point. It's Islam. It's Christianity. Not every Muslim or Christian is bad. Some are abhorrent. I heard horrible stuff said about gays, etc. by Christian brothers. But not all were bad.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 07:57 PM
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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 07:57 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not the people, it's the religion. That is my point. It's Islam. It's Christianity. Not every Muslim or Christian is bad. Some are abhorrent. I heard horrible stuff said about gays, etc. by Christian brothers. But not all were bad.
The fact that there exist millions of sensible and reasonable Muslims able to look past the bad ideas in Islam is proof that peaceful Islam is possible right? The fact that millions of Muslims here in the USA have integrated into our culture and enjoy things like the NFL and Kendrick Lamar is proof that peaceful Islam is possible right?

Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 08:10 PM
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Patient_Leech
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What a stupid fuck. Glad he mainly just hurt himself and didn't die. Terrorist fail. Allah will deny you Paradise and your virgins.

Enjoy sucking dick in prison. And I hope they make you piss on a Koran, too.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 08:13 PM
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Flyattractor
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Yeah. He probably will lose his Twig & Berries and still not get his 70 Virgins. Not that he could do anything with them now mind....


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2017 08:15 PM
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Bentley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Nope. Fundamentalism is not the problem. As Sam Harris points out, an extremist Jainist is no threat to anyone.

It's the religion. Islam, Christianity, both have some horrible stuff. Of course one of those is a lot more concise about such things in their holy book.


I blame this sick attachment to literalism to the US christians. Because literal interpretations of Holy Books has always been a thing, they think it's the core of any religion. There are many valid ways of attacking religious institutions, but the fact that anti-clericalism leans on literal readings of the Holy Books is disingenious and reductionist.

The we get true scottsman arguments like "if they don't literally believe in the book, they are not true jews/christians/muslims". Which is, again, disingenious becase most (modern) believers are not literalists.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 08:08 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
Which is, again, disingenious becase most (modern) believers are not literalists.
Right, because people are getting less and less religious as society progresses.

Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 10:34 AM
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Bentley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Right, because people are getting less and less religious as society progresses.


Literalism only became a thing when believers had free access to religious text, before that interpretations shifted to fit the people in power whether they were metaphorical interpretations or literal ones -willingly disregarding many others... Which happens to this day. In any case, the period of time where literalism was relevant was minimal even when religiosity was mainstream in most societies. It has always been a niche, disingenious and irrelevant angle to attack faith.

I agree that lessen religiosity doesn't help literalism to thrive though.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 01:28 PM
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SquallX
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard


This is why this country is in such a bad mess. You canít even debate properly.

But answer me this? Do you have any brothers that are Muslims? I have. Have you ever fought side by side with them? I have. Have you ever sat down and do any KLEís with a village elder? I have.

So I think, I know what am talking about, far better than someone that just read something online.

Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:28 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
I blame this sick attachment to literalism to the US christians. Because literal interpretations of Holy Books has always been a thing, they think it's the core of any religion. There are many valid ways of attacking religious institutions, but the fact that anti-clericalism leans on literal readings of the Holy Books is disingenious and reductionist.

The we get true scottsman arguments like "if they don't literally believe in the book, they are not true jews/christians/muslims". Which is, again, disingenious becase most (modern) believers are not literalists.


Yes, but the bible is a clusterf*ck of all this shit. The holy book of Islam is a lot more...concise and consistent in its ideas.

It is why "both religions have horrible stuff in their books" is 100% true, but also doesn't at all mean what some want it to mean when they say it. And usually it is said to make it seem like it's more or less just like Christianity. It's not. In the same way a guy who holds up a liquor store and shoots and kills the clerk in the confrontation is not at all the same as Ted Bundy. Yet both are bad.


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Last edited by Surtur on Dec 13th, 2017 at 02:35 PM

Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:33 PM
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Bentley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, but the bible is a clusterf*ck of all this shit. The holy book of Islam is a lot more...concise and consistent in its ideas.

It is why "both religions have horrible stuff in their books" is 100% true, but also doesn't at all mean what some want it to mean when they say it. And usually it is said to make it seem like it's more or less just like Christianity. It's not. In the same way a guy who holds up a liquor store and shoots and kills the clerk in the confrontation is not at all the same as Ted Bundy. Yet both are bad.


My understanding is that Quran downright contradicts itself at points, so I wouldn't call it exactly consistent. None of these books has ever been "taken to face value" by original believers, that's more of a historical myth than anything else

l agree that some of the stories told and morals taught are pretty shocking, but it would've made no sense to have some pussified politically correct books back in the day when wars were plenty and life was harsh. Historically you can easily make sense of these textual atrocities.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:40 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
My understanding is that Quran downright contradicts itself at points, so I wouldn't call it exactly consistent. None of these books has ever been "taken to face value" by original believers, that's more of a historical myth than anything else

l agree that some of the stories told and morals taught are pretty shocking, but it would've made no sense to have some pussified politically correct books back in the day when wars were plenty and life was harsh. Historically you can easily make sense of these textual atrocities.


They all contradict, but it's more concise and consistent than the bible though, which is true.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:40 PM
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Bentley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
More concise and consistent than the bible though, which is true.


Well, it was written later, so it wasn't as corrected to fit the times as the original Torah books were.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:41 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
Well, it was written later, so it wasn't as corrected to fit the times as the original Torah books were.


Well yeah you'll have reasons why, but at the end of the day it's why the thing about "both their books have horrible stuff" is both true and yet not telling the whole story.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:42 PM
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Bentley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Well yeah you'll have reasons why, but at the end of the day it's why the thing about "both their books have horrible stuff" is both true and yet not telling the whole story.


If a text is truthful it should face the harsh realities directly, it'd make no sense to have texts that talk about rainbows and ponies. Holy texts aren't meant to be morality textbooks, that's another intepretation pulled off the *ss of religious sect leaders and people who take joy in attacking those positions.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 02:50 PM
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Flyattractor
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So when did Surt become an Islamic Apologist?

They holding your stash hostage there Surt?


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 08:10 PM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard


I an all of your condescending swagger your argument does not seem to be rooted in fact.

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51% of British Muslims believe that gay sex should be illegal. 38% of Muslims believe women should obey their husband. 33% of Muslim students support an Islamic caliphate under Sharia law in the UK. 21% fully support and 19% fairly support Sharia law in the UK.

70% of Indonesians muslims blame the US or Isreal for 9/11 according to a 2009 poll
65% of Egyptian muslims support strict sharia law in all countries
76% of Pakistianian Muslims want sharia law in all countries
2/3ís of Bangladesh Muslims said honor killings of woman can sometimes be justified

And we have not even touched female genital mutilation.

Old Post Dec 13th, 2017 08:55 PM
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