Bruh I'm supposed to be studying don't be baiting me into drawing-out a long argument with that kind of response.
Yes Islam deserves criticism, Sam Harris is right. There are things in the Quran which are wrong and bad. But that doesn't mean Muslims are wrong and bad, right?
For example, a majority of Christians are sensible and rational enough to look past the things in the Bible that are wrong and bad. Just because Christianity has lots of wrong and bad ideas, does not mean that Christians themselves are wrong or bad.
And ultimately, demonizing Muslims as people is not productive. We need to be working WITH the Muslims, not AGAINST them. If we want to work towards reforming the middle east and bringing Islam up to modern humanitarian standards, we can't do that by fighting Muslims.
To bad Leftist Progressive "Standards" also turn out to be filled with as much "Wrong and Bad" if not more so then both Muslim and Christian Principals.
"Modern Humanitarian Standards" ....what a crock!
__________________ Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
It's not the people, it's the religion. That is my point. It's Islam. It's Christianity. Not every Muslim or Christian is bad. Some are abhorrent. I heard horrible stuff said about gays, etc. by Christian brothers. But not all were bad.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
The fact that there exist millions of sensible and reasonable Muslims able to look past the bad ideas in Islam is proof that peaceful Islam is possible right? The fact that millions of Muslims here in the USA have integrated into our culture and enjoy things like the NFL and Kendrick Lamar is proof that peaceful Islam is possible right?
I blame this sick attachment to literalism to the US christians. Because literal interpretations of Holy Books has always been a thing, they think it's the core of any religion. There are many valid ways of attacking religious institutions, but the fact that anti-clericalism leans on literal readings of the Holy Books is disingenious and reductionist.
The we get true scottsman arguments like "if they don't literally believe in the book, they are not true jews/christians/muslims". Which is, again, disingenious becase most (modern) believers are not literalists.
Literalism only became a thing when believers had free access to religious text, before that interpretations shifted to fit the people in power whether they were metaphorical interpretations or literal ones -willingly disregarding many others... Which happens to this day. In any case, the period of time where literalism was relevant was minimal even when religiosity was mainstream in most societies. It has always been a niche, disingenious and irrelevant angle to attack faith.
I agree that lessen religiosity doesn't help literalism to thrive though.
This is why this country is in such a bad mess. You can’t even debate properly.
But answer me this? Do you have any brothers that are Muslims? I have. Have you ever fought side by side with them? I have. Have you ever sat down and do any KLE’s with a village elder? I have.
So I think, I know what am talking about, far better than someone that just read something online.
Yes, but the bible is a clusterf*ck of all this shit. The holy book of Islam is a lot more...concise and consistent in its ideas.
It is why "both religions have horrible stuff in their books" is 100% true, but also doesn't at all mean what some want it to mean when they say it. And usually it is said to make it seem like it's more or less just like Christianity. It's not. In the same way a guy who holds up a liquor store and shoots and kills the clerk in the confrontation is not at all the same as Ted Bundy. Yet both are bad.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Dec 13th, 2017 at 02:35 PM
My understanding is that Quran downright contradicts itself at points, so I wouldn't call it exactly consistent. None of these books has ever been "taken to face value" by original believers, that's more of a historical myth than anything else
l agree that some of the stories told and morals taught are pretty shocking, but it would've made no sense to have some pussified politically correct books back in the day when wars were plenty and life was harsh. Historically you can easily make sense of these textual atrocities.
They all contradict, but it's more concise and consistent than the bible though, which is true.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Well yeah you'll have reasons why, but at the end of the day it's why the thing about "both their books have horrible stuff" is both true and yet not telling the whole story.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
If a text is truthful it should face the harsh realities directly, it'd make no sense to have texts that talk about rainbows and ponies. Holy texts aren't meant to be morality textbooks, that's another intepretation pulled off the *ss of religious sect leaders and people who take joy in attacking those positions.
I an all of your condescending swagger your argument does not seem to be rooted in fact.
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51% of British Muslims believe that gay sex should be illegal. 38% of Muslims believe women should obey their husband. 33% of Muslim students support an Islamic caliphate under Sharia law in the UK. 21% fully support and 19% fairly support Sharia law in the UK.
70% of Indonesians muslims blame the US or Isreal for 9/11 according to a 2009 poll
65% of Egyptian muslims support strict sharia law in all countries
76% of Pakistianian Muslims want sharia law in all countries
2/3’s of Bangladesh Muslims said honor killings of woman can sometimes be justified
And we have not even touched female genital mutilation.
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