[SPOILER - highlight to read]: There's a fine line between being incapable of making mistakes and having an established character act blatantly outside of his character. It's the equivalent to suddenly having Leia run around making her subordinates sleep with her and then telling naysayers "she was never a goddess incapable of making mistakes!" This is a dude who saw the good and conflict in Darth F-cking Vader, someone who has actively played a hand in genocides. It's difficult to believe that a character capable of forgiving of looking past the sins of someone like that would even consider murdering someone who MIGHT go down that path without the audience being supplied with A LOT MORE information than what we were given. All I see is a hamfisted means of keeping Luke Skywalker from outshining the newer characters. Which is a shame because there are a bajillion other ways to do that without gutting everything about the character. Even Mark Hamil fundamentally disagreed with his character's characterization in TLJ.
Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Dec 16th, 2017 at 12:26 AM
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: That's absolutely ridiculous because your Leia example is truly outside of what the character would do. Luke was already a few steps away from taking out his own father in ROTJ and managed to combat those urges after Vader's threats regarding Leia. EVEN THEN, your Leia comparison discusses Leia actually doing the act, whereas Luke had a passing thought for a split second and it dissipated, leaving him with nothing but shame and guilt in the process. It was a realistic way to demonstrate the practicality of a seasoned master dealing with a new generation of Jedi. Also, keep in mind Luke constructed this order without a terrible amount of guidance. No council, no numerous advice from fellow Masters, etc.
TLJ was fucking excellent. They did some appropriately risky shit with some of those characters and the story itself. I enjoyed it. It was also great to see [SPOILER - highlight to read]: the apprentice take out the master in a mainstream canon SW film and not have another OP Emperor-like character be the central villain once again. The way it was done was great as well,
seeing as Snoke was obviously a man with incredible force ability and Kylo used an opportunity to outwit Snoke using that. It was fucking great.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: In OT, his desire to kill Vader was FUELED by the Emperor AND VADER actively tempting and prodding him towards the dark side. If you'll recall, he initially had ZERO intention of fighting anybody and was content dying on the death star . Ultimately, he overcame the Emperor and Vader's temptations and was unmoved despite being fried nearly to death by the Emperor's force lightning. Here, we're talking about a Luke who is not only not being manipulated by a master of evil, but has already completed his arc; a Luke who has already learned his lesson and fully seen the error of the dark side and that how good can be found in even people as evil as Vader. Are we really to believe that the thought of killing Kylo in cold blood would even REGISTER in his mind given every lesson he had been established as having learned in the OT? I don't think so.
I don't think your distinction for the Leia comparison matters. Based on what we know about Leia's character, even the mere thought or temptation of having such inclinations about her subordinates would NEVER even register in her head, even for a moment. It's antithetical to everything that has been established about her character. Same goes for Luke. As of the moment he defiantly throws away his lightsaber and tells the epitome of evil himself that he'll never join the darkside, he is shown and established to be beyond such inclinations. Like Rey and much like he did with his father years earlier, he would have seen the conflict in Kylo and would actively gesture him towards the light while being reminded of the lessons he had already learned himself while being tempted by the dark side. Any efforts to put him down would've been defensive or the result of a misunderstanding (which would've made more sense as far as this subplot was concerned).
As I've pointed out in other threads, this is NOT to say that a situation where Luke tries to murder Kylo is impossible. Established characters can engage in behavior that greatly contradicts their previous characterizations, but the writers would need to give us A LOT MORE context and information than what we were given. And given the ease by which we see Luke communicate with the likes of Yoda, the idea that a lack of senior guidance led to this departure in his characterization is just not persuasive, IMO.
Low 8/10. Movie definitely was too long because of 2 sub plots in which one failed and the other made Poe really incompetent, which sucks cause he was awesome in the beginning. Im glad Snoke died hes ugly and gross. Kylo and Rey were cool, Kylo got kinda whiny at the end but usually was cool. Rey was really much more likeable no lie, best character along with Kylo. Hux was funny, Phasma was aight as a mini boss, the Praetorian Guards were the best surprise in the movie.
Lukes characterization was a 180į ofc but now watching it I feel sad for him more than disappointment. His stare down against the walkers while not *really* there was satisfying, almost expecting the Grandmaster from EU to stomp. While we got something different it was satisfying enough.
Leias certain scene is horribly overblown and not as bad as people were saying. Neither was the humor, which was fleeting at best.
I liked TFA more.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: I also was really sad that even Admiral Ackbar couldn't keep his happy ending in Legends. If they were gonna kill him off like that, why even introduce Vice Admiral Purple Hair? Ackbar could have done the suicide run himself.
Spoilers coming so if you havenít seen then donít read k.
I have mixed feelings about this movie. There are great things but there are also some very shitty things.
Snoke is officially the worst, most irrelevant Ďbig villainí in all of SW canon. Dude dies without us even knowing who the **** he is. Seriously what the shit. The buildup to Snoke and his power and everything was cast aside like absolutely nothing. It was extremely disappointing. Zero character development, zero explanations about his background. We got nothing.
Are you ****ing kidding me that now theyíre calling themselves Rebels? Itís truly baffling how incredibly unoriginal and bland the writers of episodes VII and VIII have been. Itís literally the Empire vs. Rebels all over again, and they donít even try to make it subtle. Itís ridiculous.
The dialogue was shit at times, as well. But I guess thatís a rule of almost every SW movie so whatever.
Kylo Ren continues to be an immature, impulsive and stupid creature. I thought we would see his growth clearly in VIII, but nope. Heís still pretty much the same tantrum-throwing child he was in VII.
Rey, on the other hand, was better. Her development is noticeable, and you can tell how sheís changing and maturing even throughout the movie. Poe was also good and even more involved in the plot, which I really enjoyed. Finn was pretty much the same except that this time he was almost irrelevant to the final outcome of the movie, which is sad. Luke is a ****ing dumbass and probably the biggest disappointment of the movie. What the **** is that about almost killing a young, troubled Kylo because he might become evil? His personality was absolutely different when compared to his OT self, so it does not make sense at all. Went from seeing the goodness and trying to redeem the second most evil and murderous guy in the universe (Vader) to wanting to kill Kylo because he was afraid of what he could maybe become one day. That is terrible.
Did anyone else get a lesbian vibe between leia and that vice admiral? Maybe it was just me but when they we're saying goodbye, gently holding each other's hand, staring into each other's eyes, and finishing each others sentences, I got the feeling that when Han was away the 2 of them took a few trips south of the border if u know what I mean.