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So - How powerful is Snoke, exactly?
Started by: The Ellimist

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The Ellimist
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Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

So - How powerful is Snoke, exactly?

(Obvious spoilers)

So Snoke's story clearly hasn't turned out the way we thought it would (unless if Abrams does a switcheroo and brings him back).

So, what does this mean for his placement in the canon?

From what I can tell, we know:

1. He's weaker than Luke, at least as of the last the galaxy had seen him. The Visual Dictionary states that Snoke thinks only a Skywalker can kill Luke, e.g. he personally isn't up to the task.

2. He's vastly more powerful (in actualized ability) than Rey and probably by extension Kylo, though we don't have a clear picture of how strong these two are either except that they're almost certainly weaker than Vader. We can extrapolate from Kylo's potential + years of training that he's probably pretty powerful, but by how much, it's difficult to say.

3. His Force bridge and telepathy seem to be pretty impressive. They're almost certainly above the likes of, say, TPM Maul or AotC Obi Wan. Not sure how far above it puts him though.

4. Andy Serkis claims Snoke is more powerful than Sidious or Vader because "his resources are limitless" but that doesn't make much syntactical sense and I'm not sure how much stock we should put in actor opinions (unless if Mace Windu is still alive).

5. It's not enough to say "he's featless so he's weak", you know, absence of evidence != evidence of absence. Without the evidence to back it up it's unlikely he's Palpatine level, but it's not a given that he's some random weakling either.

6. I get the impression from the way Luke, Han and co. talk about him that he's not on the level of someone like Palpatine. Luke saw Palpatine as a threat on a galactic scale, but he just sort of is like "oh Snoke is manipulating Kylo" and I wonder if he bothers that much to hunt him down pre-TFA.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 08:45 PM
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Dark-Kenshin
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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:02 PM
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Jaggarath
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Re: So - How powerful is Snoke, exactly?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
4. Andy Serkis claims Snoke is more powerful than Sidious or Vader because "his resources are limitless" but that doesn't make much syntactical sense and I'm not sure how much stock we should put in actor opinions (unless if Mace Windu is still alive).

Pablo said his comments weren't to be taken seriously on Twitter.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:14 PM
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The Merchant
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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:18 PM
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Azronger
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Sub-Maul


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:23 PM
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Darth Thor
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Not sure he’s “vastly” more powerful than Kylo. Remember Kylo couldn’t take all of Snoke’s guards on his own, so wil obviously get easily intimidated by Snoke and his guards.

Problem in comparing him to others is his complete lack of Saber feats. I mean does he even have a Saber? Then there’s the fact that it seems his physicality is a big issue for him.

And yes his TK of Rey seems impressive, but she really is a Noob. A very talented Noob, but still a Noob.

Given all that, I see little reason to place him above say Rebels Maul.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:29 PM
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An_Sock
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Power level wise, he's below TPM until further evidence arises.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:50 PM
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LordOfTheLight
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Well, he's definitely weaker than Luke as of his prime, whenever that was( in the past, or maybe even TLJ):

quote:
Snoke cut him off. "We cannot wait. Not even for hours. Hours that may permit as little as one ship to depart with the information that will allow them to find Skywalker. That would be one ship too many. The more time we give them, the more likely the chance, however slight, that they will find Skywalker and convince him to return to challenge our power. As soon as the weapon is fully charged, I want the entire Ileenium system destroyed."
........
The threatening figure of Snoke leaned toward Ren. "Who knows if copies of the map have already been made and sent out of the system, to other, minor Resistance outposts? But those who are most aware of its significance will all likely be gathered at their main base. Destroy that, destroy them, and we may at least feel a little more confident that the way to Skywalker is eradicated. Even if copies have been made and exported, the annihilation of their leadership will give pause to any survivors who might dare to contemplate further resistance to us." He sat back. "For that reason alone I would order the destruction of the system, even if there was no assurance it would also put an end to this accursed map."
Credit:The Force Awakens


He seems to be pretty scared of Luke.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 09:56 PM
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Prof. T.C McAbe
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Above TPM Maul, below CW Maul.


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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Given that Snoke knows how the original Empire fell, the type of morale boost Luke Skywalker would afford the resistance, and that he explicitly says in TFA that Skywalker's return could mean the return of the Jedi Order, (I.e. Things beyond just Luke's strength in the force or skill with the lightsaber,) I don't think that's definitive enough evidence to say "Snoke is weaker in the force than Luke Skywalker." You could easily argue that he is, but not by any statements that Snoke has made.

Later on I'm gonna make a post as to why I rank Snoke as highly as I do.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:06 PM
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Darth Abonis
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He's weaker than Palpatine imho

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:14 PM
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LordOfTheLight
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Snoke refers to the rise of the Jedi Order if Luke returns, once, yes. That doesn't have anything to do with the passages I posted.

Contextually speaking, the last thing Snoke has in mind in this instance, is fear for a Jedi Order that may take years or maybe even decades to rise again. It is as obvious as daylight that he is simply scared of Luke as a person in the way Luke is referenced there. These are immediate instances and planning for immediate events.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:17 PM
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|King Joker|
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I doubt that Snoke is above Dooku.


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cs_zoltan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Later on I'm gonna make a post as to why I rank Snoke as highly as I do.


Because you suck rancid cock.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:31 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Snoke refers to the rise of the Jedi Order if Luke returns, once, yes. That doesn't have anything to do with the passages I posted.

Contextually speaking, the last thing Snoke has in mind in this instance, is fear for a Jedi Order that may take years or maybe even decades to rise again. It is as obvious as daylight that he is simply scared of Luke as a person in the way Luke is referenced there. These are immediate instances and planning for immediate events.


Yes, but even regardless of the Jedi Order being re-formed, Snoke still has more reason to fear Luke other than his mastery of the force or skill with a lightsaber. At least enough so that his fear of Luke isn't 100% definitive proof that his mastery of the force is inferior.

Heck, even Sidious felt it was absolutely imperative that they found and stopped/killed Luke, and feared that he could destroy the Sith.


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Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 10:49 PM

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:47 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I doubt that Snoke is above Dooku.


thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Because you suck rancid cock.


thumb up

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 10:56 PM
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Kurk
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Snoke is on Vader/Dooku/Mace tier IMO


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LordOfTheLight
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, but even regardless of the Jedi Order being re-formed, Snoke still has more reason to fear Luke other than his mastery of the force or skill with a lightsaber. At least enough so that his fear of Luke isn't 100% definitive proof that his mastery of the force is inferior.

Heck, even Sidious felt it was absolutely imperative that they found and stopped/killed Luke, and feared that he could destroy the Sith.


Well, obviously when I used the term "definitely", I used it loosely. Character opinions are never 100% correct. Rephrasing it, I'll simply say that it is quite likely that it is so. Certainly I wouldn't discount it.

That said, my friend, Sidious feared Luke's potential, or raw power. Much in the same way as Luke feared Rey's( except that Luke's potential is much above Palpatine's). He feared that if he didn't destroy or convert the Jedi soon, Luke would grow too powerful to be contained. Palpatine's contempt for Luke's actualized powers is also made pretty clear.

Snoke's fears don't match up to that. Snoke is afraid that Luke will end his exile, and return. Luke is 53, and while he may not have actualized his potential, I don't think Snoke is worried that Luke is going to grow exponentially more powerful or anything like that. Neither is he looking in to the far future, and fearing a Jedi Order rising, judging by his demeanor and simply looking at context.

The most likely explanation, is that he is simply afraid of Luke as he is. Alright, the fear here, is subjective in nature. It in of itself isn't a guarantee or anything that Luke's mastery is definitely superior. But it is a pretty solid piece of evidence to be taken in for consideration, in my opinion.

Snoke, at this point, has the Republic in a pincer like grip. His superweapon can and will annihilate the heart of the Republic. His remaining forces hugely outnumber the opposition's. The Knights of Ren are his to command( presumably). He doesn't need to worry about politics, military, or anything like that, because his opponents don't have comparable leverage in any of those areas. What difference would Luke make then, that Snoke fears him so much? The resistance is pretty motivated, and BM isn't a thing in canon. New Jedi Order? Fantasy. At least in the short term, which is what Snoke's concerned with.

Surely you see where I am going with this. I don't see why there isn't a very likely chance of it, to be honest.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 11:21 PM
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The Ellimist
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@Skillz the visual dictionary says Snoke thinks only a Skywalker can kill Luke. That seems pretty clear to me, and I don't think there's overwhelming evidence (or much at all) to go against it - it fits exactly what we'd expect given Luke's potential.


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The Merchant
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Another thing that caught my eye in the new Visual Dictionary is the Praetorian Guards are needed to fight for Snoke thanks to his frail body.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:00 AM
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