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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » So - How powerful is Snoke, exactly?


So - How powerful is Snoke, exactly?
Started by: The Ellimist

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redpill
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Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

i'm with stupendous wave and star wars theory that snoke is more powerful thansidious

most powerful non-enitty force user we've seen

could maul sidious dooku etc do to rey what snoke did? i doubt it.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:02 AM
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The Ellimist
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Why not?


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:04 AM
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samappo
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Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple


 

My thoughts:

Let's first look at the OT. Lucas tells us that Yoda and Sidious, the two masters/teachers of the Light and Dark sides, are 'beyond' lightsabers. That's why we never see them using it, because they've gone beyond the need to use them. I feel like Johnson has emulated this with the new trilogy. The two big guys of both sides of the force are Luke and Snoke, both of whom aren't really going to use lightsabers in any context, since their abilities in the force are just that good that they don't need to use one in a competitive fight really. We can't use the Luke vs Ben fight as an example, because Luke was just stalling Kylo and clearly toying around. Snoke is too physically weak, but we can't put it beyond him to actually augment himself like Yoda. Overall, the theme of the big goodie and big badie being beyond lightsabers, with the main characters [young], so in this instance Kylo and Rey still using them is a direct mirror of the OT.

It's too early to really debate Snoke vs Luke. We don't have enough feats. For now, Snoke is clearly above Ben and Rey, just as Luke is clearly above them.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:04 AM
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redpill
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Registered: Sep 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why not?



maul fought a padawan in obi wan yet he never ragdolled him the way snoke ragdolled rey, when maul had the incentive to do so.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:09 AM
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The Ellimist
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He's prob more powerful than Maul but I don't know how he's above Sidious.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:11 AM
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samappo
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I think he's established himself as pretty powerful if he can detect and ragdoll an attempt on his life by a pissed off grandson of Anakin.


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The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:12 AM
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The Ellimist
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by samappo
I think he's established himself as pretty powerful if he can detect and ragdoll an attempt on his life by a pissed off grandson of Anakin.


I mean Kylo stood up in visible anger, not sure if that's a really impressive precog fight.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:15 AM
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samappo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I mean Kylo stood up in visible anger, not sure if that's a really impressive precog fight.


It was a pretty quick reaction from Snoke I thought. Anyway, I think the ragdolling of any combination of "Skywalker" + "pissed off" is impressive.


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The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:27 AM
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The Ellimist
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by samappo
It was a pretty quick reaction from Snoke I thought. Anyway, I think the ragdolling of any combination of "Skywalker" + "pissed off" is impressive.


Eh, it seems more like he caught an unarmed Kylo off guard there by bouncing lightning off the floor. I agree that Snoke isn't weak, maybe Dooku level? IDK.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:29 AM
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samappo
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I feel like Dooku level is a little too little for Snoke ... but we have no way of knowing.

Regardless of the circumstances, I don't think Ben could take on Snoke in a fair force contest, and he's a Skywalker [though he hasn't fully realised his potential, that's still pretty good].


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The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:32 AM
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The Ellimist
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Kylo isn't weak but difficult to place. We know almost for certain that he's weaker than Vader...but he could be like anywhere.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:36 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by redpill
maul fought a padawan in obi wan yet he never ragdolled him the way snoke ragdolled rey, when maul had the incentive to do so.




Right except that was merely TPM Maul, and “Padawan” Obi-Wan had completed his training. However Rebels Maul has ragdolled the 7th Sister. All Inquisitors are former Jedi.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He's prob more powerful than Maul but I don't know how he's above Sidious.


Here’s the thing. Even IF he’s more powerful than Maul in the Force, that still doesn’t mean he can stop Maul Saber slicing him, given Snoke’s physical weakness and Zero Saber showings.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Eh, it seems more like he caught an unarmed Kylo off guard there by bouncing lightning off the floor.


Also don’t forget Kylo started on his knees, so had to get up and attack before Snoke Just fires FL at him. And right after he’s shot, Snoke’s guards threaten him. The same guards we know he needs Rey’s help to defeat.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:38 AM
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The Ellimist
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Honestly we're being really speculative here - we have no hard lower and upper limit to how strong he is relative to PT/OT characters.

It would be weird if a Skywalker of Ben's age and training were still weaker than, say, one of the B-team, so I think Snoke is solidly above Maul because I don't think Maul could ragdoll Kit Fisto and co.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:41 AM
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DarthAnt66
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Author intent aside, Snoke ragdolling Rey isn't a display of Force power beyond moving a person.

There's no passive Force barriers in Canon, nor did Rey indicate she threw up any active Force barriers.

The best we've seen of Snoke telekinesis (again, author intent aside) is overpowering Rey's grip of the lightsaber.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:46 AM
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The Ellimist
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There are obviously passive Force barriers in Canon, otherwise Obi Wan would've just Force pushed Anakin into the lava.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:48 AM
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DarthAnt66
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No, there isn't. You missed this, but we had a thread on it. There's absolutely not.

I'll look for the thread.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:49 AM
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The Ellimist
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Or rather there's some defense against TK and maybe Rey didn't know of it (but she seems to magically know everything else).


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:50 AM
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DarthAnt66
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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t642433.html

Essentially, telekinesis only works when the person is vulnerable and / or has an opening in their defenses.

There's no innate Force barrier protecting individuals like in Legends, though.

The Darth Vader comics especially show this by Vader being capable of choking Jedi Masters when they're unprepared, but the same Masters can resist when they're prepared.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Dec 24th, 2017 at 12:53 AM

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:51 AM
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The Ellimist
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I thought that was how they worked in Legends too lol. As in, you have to be prepared by keeping your barrier up, but anyway.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:53 AM
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DarthAnt66
The Returned

Registered: Feb 2013
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No. In Legends, all Force users have lesser / passive Force barriers that are active at all times. They can then also throw up active Force barriers, which are far stronger and a reflection of their power.

In Canon, it's more of if the individual is prepared or not. The general defense to telekinesis is returning the favor with a telekinetic attack back on the person, also (ROTS, Vader comics, etc.).


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"The Emperor had three-hundred years to break this man . . . and he never succumbed?"

Old Post Dec 24th, 2017 12:55 AM
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