Numbers can be relevant if the weaker opponents are at least somewhat close to their opponent's power. And even though Buutenks was stronger than Mystic Gohan, Gohan was still able to put up a fight. So the difference between them definitely wasn't huge by any stretch [Buutenks was far less that 2x Gohan.] That's probably why they had SSJ3 Goku fight Buutenks solo in the anime hehe.
And Tagoma was equal to Mystic Gohan, and seemed to have uber physical durability. The only thing that even made him flinch was a headbutt to the nuts from SSJ Gotenks, lol. Everything else he soaked without even a twitch.
Meh, Gohan stayed in the fight for a decent length of time, I suppose, but Bootenks really was stomping him soundly the entire time. Boo also seemed to be dragging out the fight as long as possible because he was having fun. So yeah, throw another Mystic Gohan in the mix and you'd get the exact same result, imo.
The team might be able to 'win' the first match by staying on the constant defensive and avoiding Boo long enough for Gotenks' fusion to time-out... But even if he reverted into Booccolo, I still don't think the team has the ability to cause him any lasting damage(never mind perma-kill him). Hell, I doubt they could so much as deplete his energy, tbh... Boo will ALWAYS win a battle of attrition.
Bootenks absolutely stomps them in the second match, though(especially if he takes things even remotely seriously.) The team literally cannot cause ANY lasting damage to Boo; nor can they deplete his energy in the slightest.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 31st, 2017 at 03:25 AM
was it ever explained how he became so powerful? was tagoma sparring with 4th form or golden frieza for god sake? even if he was, i cant imagine tagoma being able to last long enough to actually get any better.
on that note- why did frieza get so much more powerful by training with a weakling?
And then loses to a weaker ssj Gohan... and hurt by Gotenks who is weaker than Gohan was. Mystic Gohan levels would been able to sit there like Perfect Cell was against Vegeta.
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As for why Freeza got more powerful by training with Tagoma: he is the greatest fighting prodigy in the franchise. The dude could have sparred with a f*cking bucket of water, and his power would have still increased astronomically.
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That only works if Piccolo and Jaco both didn't comment on that Ginyu-Tagoma had gotten stronger than Tagoma. Ginyu was surprised he couldn't draw out the power of Goku's, and it was very much plot as to why Ginyu could barely get to 23k in Goku's body. Ginyu assumed he would instantly be able to draw out Goku's power, and it's a technique he has used more than just once.
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Jaco's comment is entirely meaningless, imo. The dude can't even sense ki, and is hardly what I would call a 'fighting prodigy'. He was also hiding behind a f*cking rock when he arbitrarily made that comment, lol... He's got uber vision, though, I'll give him that.
Frankly, Piccolo's comment is easy to dismiss as glaringly inconsistent BS. When Tagoma first entered the battle, Gohan outright stated that he was on par with his Boo-era Mystic self, and NO ONE(not even Piccolo, who actually sensed Gohan's ki back then) disagreed with him. Then, after Ginyu took Tagoma's body and blitzed the Z Fighters, Piccolo randomly commented that 'Ginoma' was "stronger than before" -- but we can say with 100% certainty that this couldn't have possibly been the case. After all, RoF-era Gohan was vastly weaker than he was during the Boo-era(he could barely even sustain SSJ at all), yet he still easily one-shot 'Ginoma' after going SSJ. Doesn't add up.
So yeah, I think it's clear that 'Ginoma' was FAR weaker than Tagoma himself... Which also falls perfectly in-line with what we saw on Namek, when Ginyu took Goku's body.
Eh, the only 'plot' is that Ginyu couldn't access all of Goku's power, because he wasn't used to the new body. It is perfectly reasonable(and moreover logical) to assume the same thing happened when he usurped Tagoma's body, imo.
After all, the last sentient being that Ginyu possessed before Tagoma, was Goku... And when Ginyu first possessed Goku's body, he could only tap a small fraction of his power, because he wasn't yet acclimated to the new vessel: https://i.imgur.com/n6UrzBW.jpg https://i.imgur.com/CbXDDSP.jpg
So why would Tagoma's body be any different? I mean, it's not like Ginyu could have possibly improved his body-swap technique, and/or the rate at which he acclimated with a new host, given that he had been trapped inside a phucking FROG since the Namek saga, lol. So yeah, it's obvious the same thing that happened with Goku's body happened with Tagoma's body as well: Ginyu could only use a small fraction of his powers initially, because he was not yet accustomed to the body... I mean, 'Ginoma' himself did mention that much, at least: (please log in to view the image)
{edit}
Yeesh! Sorry for the long-winded response... I was trying to be thorough, not annoying.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 31st, 2017 at 07:24 AM
Buutenks wins, with ease. No real reason to believe Gohans any stronger then he was at Buu saga.
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Jaco is weak as a fighter but he's the one who knew what Hit was doing with timeskip, and most of the time is shown to know what he's talking about. He's also responding to what Piccolo says, and that Ginyu can bring out Tagoma's full power.
Piccolo sense powers, was alive during Mystic Gohan (which I still don't buy Tagoma was that level anyway) and sense when Gohan said he's probably as powerful as me at my best, and then said that he had gotten even stronger. There is zero reasons to discount either statement of Jaco or Piccolo, yet take Gohan's statement to heart, when nobody disagreed with Piccolo's statement, that he said out loud. RoF Saga is wildly inconsistent with the rest of the series anyway.
The Goku on Namek part is a completely different thing, and can't be looked at with Tagoma. Ginyu, who has used the technique plenty of times, is confident he can use the body without any troubles. It's Goku who is saying he can't use the body because Goku's power comes from mind and body being as one. Had he taken over Vegeta's body he would have been able to fully access the power. Goku's martial artist mind, and body is what stopped Ginyu not any ability to not be fully accustomed to the body.
Even according to the Daizenshu Ginyu's changed forms so many times only a few people know his original form. So he's not a novice at it, and he changed into bodies that were stronger than him. If there was some time lapse he would know it.
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Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.