Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
See, the paradox arises because you’ve proven time and again that no one should give a flying **** about your opinion on anything, so why should people start now
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Yeah, that was the instance I was referring to. You could have just said yes to that.
That's a very localised application of Barrier, but I can accept it being Barrier instead of Deflection or whatever. Moving on.
I like that you accept Nihilus draining planets with a thought literally but Anakin appearing everywhere at once is suddenly hyperbole.
It doesn't escape me that Lachris isn't fodder in the grand scheme of things. But if we're talking about the higher-ups as we tend to in the versus boards, then yes, she's fodder.
No, but neither is AotC Obi-Wan, who still has far greater demonstrable showings and frankly, hype.
I don't recall any major Sith being on Balmorra at the time, so Lachris' overlording doesn't win her many plaudits from me given her job was primarily administrative from what I could tell. As for the attack on Coruscant, I know it's said that the best of the Empire's warriors were there, but Ven Zallow blitzed several of them, so once again, compared to any decent Jedi or Sith I don't think the bar is set extraordinarily high for just being there. Her apprenticeship to Marr and lack of failure in war are nice and fine but they just don't mean much when we're talking about this level. After all, you technically won't fail in war if you never run into the heavyweights. So I get that she's meant to be good, but if we're comparing her to just about any notable character? She's shit.
The non-Force sensitives should more or less look like they were standing still compared to Revan. And my point isn't that he got them to trip over each other but that he could position himself closely enough within the saber duelists to make it difficult for people to shoot at him from the outside, etc. Granted, BM provides enhanced coordination, though there's also the question of how great Satele's BM was on Yavin IV. In any case the question of interest is how it compares to Yoda.
I'm not going to delve into the minutiae of the amping and so on again, and I get that Revan has to be incredibly fast to fight them all and not get stomped. I just need the comparison to Yoda. While Revan fighting three enhanced Force users and three non-Force sensitives is nice and dandy, Yoda matching Sidious impresses me considerably more as Sidious outright blitzes three of the most skilled Jedi Masters (you can't attack the B-team for empty hype while you're embellishing the likes of Lachris, lol, and they've actually got good feats at least). You could essentially translate that as Yoda blitzing the B-team.
There's also Yoda in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter more or less blitzing Plo Koon, Depa Billaba and Saesee Tiin, as he avoided all of their strikes with laughable ease despite hardly moving. Revan faced more enemies, but as far as I can tell Yoda faced not only the faster ones but his performance was quite a few orders of magnitude higher: blitzing >>>>>>> losing, even if he put up a valiant fight. As nice as Revan's feat is, I don't think it puts him "well within" the speed level of Yoda.
This is the quote in context:
Revan being electrocuted, T3 firing his flamethrower, Vitiate blowing T3 up and drawing Revan's lightsaber is what took a few seconds. Not the entirety of the fight.
That's not what's defined as Canon, though. It has to be a story element; ie. if you took it out the story wouldn't function. Just because it's scripted doesn't mean it can't be an embellished gameplay effect.
"Doesn't require much effort" is your assumption based on them not screaming in exertion when they pull it off, lol. Have you got more substantive proof than that?
The First Son proves you can use it multiple times, but that it still has a limit (when he's defeated, I don't see him doing it there to run away or anything of the sort). My assumption that it can't be spammed interminably rests on the precedent of that literally never being the case. Abeloth and An'ya Kuro have both shown teleportation in a fight, yet once they were both sufficiently expended they failed to do it again. Jadus literally teleported in time to dodge blaster fire but by the end of the fight he was exhausted enough to not be able to teleport out of the Force Cage, lol. Revan and the Dread Masters, apparently both capable of teleportation, still lost their fights. First Son, again, flaunted his teleportation but eventually he couldn't do it anymore.
No, you just didn't read what I said. The reason it's indistinguishable in terms of how much time it takes is because those examples are of the Outlander embracing Valkorion's power, ie. adding Valkorion's power onto his own. That takes zero time, but that's not relevant here. Valkorion already has his own power. There's no counterpart for what the Outlander did in this fight. All Valkorion can do is attack, and whenever that happens the time freeze shit disappears.
I've told you before, the presumption is that the Outlander had enough time to land an attack on Heskal before Heskal could complete the attack, even without the time stop. The time stop comes into play where the Outlander just embraces Valkorion's power before doing so. The rest, to me, sound like animation issues, possibly errors. Otherwise if the Outlander had free reign to attack without Heskal being able to react, why not just use a Saber Throw and not bother with accepting Valkorion's power? That's a free kill, surely.
I like that we're debating the fallible animations of a game when we've got explicit evidence from the man himself and other questions to reconcile if it was actual time freeze. Explain to me how we get characters like Arcann being unable to move at times in the time freeze and at other times being able to? It seems like a side-effect of spirit projection to me and that whoever he projects himself to happens to be exempt from the time stops. After all, you always see Valkorion's spirit and you're correspondingly the beneficiary of every single one of these time freezes. Anytime anyone else happens to "see" Valkorion, they're part of it too. That includes the likes of Arcann, who just happens to be excluded from the time freeze whenever he can't see Valkorion's spirit. Anyone else who can't see him looks frozen in time. When everyone in a room can see Valkorion (ie. Senya's DS death), then time doesn't appear frozen at all.
Instead of repeatedly debating animations and whether or not they moved or attacked during the time freeze, let's ask the real question of whether or not it makes narrative sense. Valkorion himself saying time doesn't stop and telling you to choose quickly: does that not suggest that the "power" can't be exploited in the way you suggest? In every instance of the time freeze, you're always asked to accept his power or not. You're never allowed to take advantage of his time bending by just slashing through or saber throwing your frozen enemies, which according to you the player should be able to do given your opponents seemingly can't move while you get a free hit. Whether or not it's actual time freeze or perceptions or whatever, it doesn't seem to have serious combat implications outside of a few gimmicky animations. And your argument that Valkorion can use it on himself to give himself light speed reactions or whatever doesn't seem to have any basis.
I'm not responding to the rest of your other examples as they fall under the same point. If you can break down my underlying reasons for disbelief in the practicality of this "time freeze" thing, then I'll concede to your examples collectively as they all fall under one point.
To clarify, it seems as if the "time stop" is just Valkorion's spirit appearing before someone. If you can see it, you're not frozen. If not, you are. Ta-dah. I don't see it being a thing when he's in the flesh. If there's examples where that's not the case then I'll reconsider.
I know that you're using the term for convenience. The point doesn't change, whether it's actual time stopping or not. Valkorion makes it abundantly clear that his power isn't some get out of jail free card, and that any action you actually take will be on your own merits.
Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 11th, 2018 at 03:26 AM
Jan 11th, 2018 02:13 AM
