I honestly do a merger between forum/comic books, most of the time. There's zero fun in just going "he's a statue", and then seeing the other side desperately grasping at straws. Flash-types are the only ones truly broken, since they only have that one power, so you can't discuss the others. How many good Flash threads can you even remember, besides ones where people are trolling? But somebody like Superman, even though he has reached a level where he can literally time-travel by running, you can simply...not mention that, and you can have a reasonable debate. I only use it in a 'can he dodge that attack' type of way, not in a 'the fight hasn't even started from the other fighter's perspective.
I think the forum has reached a reasonable balance between only going high end, or only going for abilities that are cherry picked, to somewhat seeing the overall picture [i.e. how would go in comic books efficiently]. I'm not sure how the rules can be enforced, without removing the jobber/hero auras - which are a huge part of comic storylines. Batman would skyrocket to mid-meta, at least.
Maybe I see it that way because I have like a dozen posters on ignore...lol
Last edited by Philosophía on Jan 11th, 2018 at 06:12 PM
The official, canon characters that we discuss don’t reside on this or any forum nor can they visit it. They reside in the comics. The forum discusses those characters. It should actually be the opposite of what you say. The default should be that we are discussing the characters based on how they are portrayed in the comics where they officially and canonically reside.
Respect threads are based on what happens in the comics. Characters’ powers and abilities are established in the comics. We know that Karate Kid can handle up on metas because we see him do it in comics. These are not battle board characters. These are comic book characters that are discussed on battle boards.
If I argue that Thor’s ability to fly at warp speeds and do so while being able to react to objects means that he would never be a statue, the same statue arguing folks would argue against this. For Hulk to be able to jump out of the atmosphere, his legs would have to contract at superspeeds which would mean that he should be able to run at superspeeds. Damn what is shown in comics. Silver Surfer should never get hit due to his forcefields, intangibility, lightspeed traveling reaction speed, etc.
The superspeed argument is based on laziness in my opinion. It’s a cop-out so that some fans don’t have to actually present a legitimate argument. And the way I see it, PIS is a happening that is outrageously out of the norm. Characters with superspeed getting hit regularly is overwhelming the norm.
Yet shit like “ Silver Surfer creating a black hole in someone’s brain” is what? Creativity?
No! Super speed arguments aren’t lazy. They are just like strength or durability. You seem to be able to grasp the huge strength gap between Hulk and Deadpool hut you can’t to acknowledge that a gap between someone like flash and Deadpool.
Like someone has posted in other topics already, characters are subject to PIS and CIS. No, you’ll never see Flash using his full speed all the time despite the fact that he can. Let’s not forget Barry was technically out running Death since COIE (20+Years). It would destroy the point of comics, story, or a huge portion relating to publishing.
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i said i think discussions would be a lot better if the premise we operated under in the forum was "how do you think a fight in a comic would go between (insert characters)?"
you said: The default should be that we are discussing the characters based on how they are portrayed in the comics
we expressed nearly identical overall sentiments.
well....of course they are? but in some cases, the way they are portrayed runs counter to common sense or logic, why? because it makes the story better. and sure karate kid has some great showings--but what about when someone brings up some of his poor showings? there is no way to logically argue the disparity in performances, why? because the disparity exists for the purpose of the story.
of course they would. in a comic book, thor would never be a statue in a fight against superman, despite the fact that thor has shown has to be unable to react to guys like mongoose, spiderman or wolverine, let alone guys with superman-level speed. can a guy capable of navigating at warp speeds (assuming it's not always been the hammer leading him) somehow be made to be slow in comparison to guys like that? again, not something that can be rationalized. pis isn't a one way street--it's a huge multi-lane highway. one persons low ball is another person's pis. likewise with high balling.
you sound like you're accusing me of saying ss should never be hit. it is a forum rule that characters are used to the best of their abilities, that pis and cis are ruled out. if superman (i use him because he is always the catalyst for these types of arguments) can move, think and react in attosecond increments, and he's shown to be a genius, what logical reason is there for him to stand still and ever, ever get hit by someone like the hulk outside of a comic book? because he gets hit INSIDE a comic book? that isn't a good enough reason in a forum setting. and that's not MY idea--that is the PURPOSE of the forum. so to assume he DOES get hit, people need to make excuses for how that is possible, when, in reality, there IS no reason, because the comic book setting which makes his getting hit possible has been removed.
in a comic? sure. but even that is mitigated in the case of guys like flash. what, it's a coincidence that flash's rogue's gallery is literally littered with speedster enemies? why don't guys like batman have guys like zoom for regular enemies?
probably wouldn't be much fun to have batman die in the first femtosecond of the fight, less fun trying to come up with reasons (as the writer) for how he WOULDN'T die. but we just saw bats take on thawne for a bit. does that elevate bats to flash speeds? or does thawne drop to bats's level? looking at the feats (as portrayed in the comics you cited at the start of your post) batman should have been that statue you also mentioned. but he wasn't. again, why? because it made for a pretty cool fight--least imo. but i can suspend disbelief for purposes of a good story. the forum removes my need to suspend that disbelief.
whew--that was long winded--don't blame if you didn't read. in the end, i actually think we're on the same side here though.....