So for proponents of the two most qualified candidates, Mace and UnuThul, I'd appreciate summations that are clear, concise, and well sourced.
Right now, I think UnuThul arguably has an advantage (and perhaps a potent one) in raw power, but Mace has an advantage in skill, experience, and out-of-context abilities like Vaapad and shatterpoint that lend themselves well towards clobbering dark siders.
I could lean either way. Currently I'm inclined to lean Mace, but I think there's an argument to be made for 'Thul.
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Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
I find myself agreeing with Tempest, but I don't think UnuThul has a power advantage at all. Mace was able to stalemate RotS Sheev, and there's nothing UnuThul has that Sheev wouldn't be capable of. My only concern for Mace is telepathy; other than that he seems to have this in the bag.
Mace being able to stalemate RotS Sheev was because he was fighting RotS Sheev. Assuming he carries that power with him into every fight (peak mental state or not) is a mistake as again, his abilities are almost entirely relative to the dark sider he is fighting.
Not that raw power translates remotely into the scope of Palpatine's abilities regardless.
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Well, we dont need to assume that because even under base power Mace has been repeatedly stated to be on Yoda's level.
My take on it is as such- A force user cannot channelize more power than his potential would dictate. The same would apply to Mace even with his Vaapad. If he is functioning higher than his base power, it simply means he is channelizing more of his potential power via mastery of Vaapad (it being the channel for darkness and all, and bringing him to the "exact" level of Sidious), because as ROTS makes clear, Vaapad is more than just a lightsaber form. We see what happens when force users channelize power close to their potential, for example Obi Wan in Lone Wolf when he ran faster than any Jedi or Sith had in history( under desperate circumstances), felt his entire essence unravelling and his atoms flying apart. Obviously nothing of the sort happens to Mace. Which indicates that he was far from channelizing power close to his potential.
Unless you want to suggest that UnuThul is massively above ROTS Sidious in power, Mace can rival his raw power. I'd wager he could at least come close to it on his own base power.
Vaapad is Mace charging up his power and holding it within himself rather than releasing it. The result is an empowered ball of energy on the brink of exploding that Mace contains via will and mastery. As a result, the amount of energy available to Mace for augmentive purposes is, logically, increased. The channeling and superconducting loop is likely used to maintain this so Mace does not lose control. With someone like Sidious, it can presumably be maintained indefinitely.
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Last edited by Jaggarath on Jan 18th, 2018 at 10:55 PM
Basically how I have always visualized it except, by charging, you mean instantly( or near enough anyways), right? Because I havent seen anything that suggests that for Vaapad to work, the force user has to gather power beforehand.
Fact Files doesn't specify, but given the terminology of "explosion of power" being contained within Mace, I imagine it at least takes several seconds to reach its peak (which I think is visibly shown in the fight as Mace gradually grows stronger).
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
UnuThul almost mentally dominating Luke, who beats it mainly through external support (credit to Urs for finding it):
Raynar's eyes grew very dark around the edges, and suddenly Luke could see nothing else. The murky presence began to reach into his mind, trying to push its way inside his thoughts to read his intentions. Luke was astonished by its power and had to reach deeply into the Force to bolster his own strength. Though the probe was hardly subtle or refined, it felt as though it were being driven by a thousand Raynars, and he feared for a moment that in his surprise he would be overwhelmed by its sheer might.
Then he felt Mara pouring her own strength into him, and Saba and even Leia. Together they pushed the dusky hand back. Luke found himself looking once again into the blue, lidless eyes of their host, and he finally began to comprehend just how difficult it was going to be to reach Raynar Thul.
A few moments later a turbolaser barrage streaked toward the frigate. A deep pang of sorrow washed over Leia as she awaited the coming explosion. Whatever Raynar had become among the Killiks, he had once been a Jedi and a close friend of her children, and she knew that his loss would leave her feeling empty and dismal._
Then, as the strike neared Raynar's vessel, the dark weight inside vanished, and Leia's strength surged back. Still gasping, she was about to report who was aboard, but the turbolaser barrage suddenly veered away and blossomed in empty space._
Grendyl cried out in astonishment, a murmur of disbelief rose from the survivors on the command deck, and Leia finally understood why the Killik gunners were such bad shots._
They weren't trying to hit the Ackbar._
When the second volley of turbolaser fire also veered away at the last instant, Bwua'tu narrowed his eyes and turned to Leia._
"What is it?" he asked. "Some sort of new shield?"_
Leia shook her head. "It's Raynar Thul," she said. "And I think he's coming to take your ship."_
The Chiss would grow even bolder and attack deeper into Colony territory. Trillions of Killiks and millions of Chiss would die, and the war would continue more ferociously than before.
Ellm, what is so great about turbolaser barrages that you have Raynar deflecting them as "the" best feat on the environment in SW, even considering unamped and solo?
Well if we take the source material telling us that turbolasers are lightspeed weapons with sublight tracers it's not even a question. But even if we don't, we know that this is the only time anyone has done so either technologically or with the Force other than via literal singularities, and that turbolasers seem unaffected by gravity or anything else. If either Force users or some technological substitute could bend away turbolaser barrages at a consistent rate, someone else would've done so. Consider:
- he has to catch the turbolasers right at the last moment, which is like the scale of fractions of a second (?)
- he has to bend the entire barrage away when every gravity well that doesn't have an event horizon has failed, e.g. interdictors which generate gravitational fields strong enough to pull ships out of hyperspace can't bend turoblasers
- he does this multiple times
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Jan 19th, 2018 at 12:19 AM
I was talking more on the lines of comparing their damage output. I get that they are lightspeed weapons, but they obviously have a firm upper limit. Which, I havent seen to be planetary or anything yet ( Dovin basals are). Excuse me for I havent really gone into the technological aspects of SW. Its possible he could have felt the cannons being charged up, is it?
IIRC the ROTS novel has singular turbolaser shots destroying entire villages. Or something like that anyways.
Last edited by LordOfTheLight on Jan 19th, 2018 at 12:33 AM
Anyways, even if turbolasers are ftl, it need not necessarily mean that Raynar is on that scale as well, as I said, precog might give him the awareness, not to mention sense.
Jan 18th, 2018 06:34 PM
