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Trump hurts Renewable Energy
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blindside12
I love being lectured by a college student "environmentalist" while I in a carbon neutral, American made Solar powered home, driving an American made EV
Iím not lecturing Iím just saying what people smarter than me are saying. And if youíre really doing all those things Awesome, youíre ahead of the curve.

Unfortunately the majority of America doesnít have the resources or education to do what you have done. And we probably need the government to implement unilateral wholesale change or things will become bad.

China is evidence that we need to start early. Why do you think theyíre so tenacious about renewable energy? Because their cities are choked by pollution.

Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:15 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blindside12
And since their business is 100% electric they survive of that tax credit. As usual, you have to disagree with me on something. Can't ever agree on anything.


Huh? The credit goes to the buyer, as a means to make all electric cars more desirable.

The tax credit is actually more of a incentive** to people buying the 30K Nissan Leaf, than the person dropping 95k for the Tesla or electric BMW. Considering the typical buyer of a Nissan Leaf and the typical buyer of a Tesla and the tax brackets they're in. ie Very few Tesla (and other high-end eCars) buyers buy because of the tax credit, it's all in all 'small change' to them, sure it's nice, but it's not what makes or breaks the deal for them when they decide to trade their Mercedes S500 for a Tesla.

**With the Tesla 3, that could change, as a 7k or so tax break on a 45kcar is a big deal and it will make those sort of buyers really consider. But the T3 is off to a rocky start.

I do wonder about Tesla's future though, they nigh consistently post loses, yet their stock share prices are more inline with a tech company than an auto manufacturer. It seems the company is supported on hopes and dreams and Elon Musk's will (and ability to BS) alone.


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Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:22 PM
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Blindside12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
Iím not lecturing Iím just saying what people smarter than me are saying. And if youíre really doing all those things Awesome, youíre ahead of the curve.

Unfortunately the majority of America doesnít have the resources or education to do what you have done. And we probably need the government to implement unilateral wholesale change or things will become bad.

China is evidence that we need to start early. Why do you think theyíre so tenacious about renewable energy? Because their cities are choked by pollution.


Summed up and paraphrased "we need more govement education to educate people."


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"This is my last election, tell Vlad, after my election I will have more flexibility." Barack Obama. This conversation was about US regression of strategic nuclear missile defense in Europe.

Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:27 PM
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Blindside12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Huh? The credit goes to the buyer, as a means to make all electric cars more desirable.

The tax credit is actually more of a incentive** to people buying the 30K Nissan Leaf, than the person dropping 95k for the Tesla or electric BMW. Considering the typical buyer of a Nissan Leaf and the typical buyer of a Tesla and the tax brackets they're in. ie Very few Tesla (and other high-end eCars) buyers buy because of the tax credit, it's all in all 'small change' to them, sure it's nice, but it's not what makes or breaks the deal for them when they decide to trade their Mercedes S500 for a Tesla.

**With the Tesla 3, that could change, as a 7k or so tax break on a 45kcar is a big deal and it will make those sort of buyers really consider. But the T3 is off to a rocky start.

I do wonder about Tesla's future though, they nigh consistently post loses, yet their stock share prices are more inline with a tech company than an auto manufacturer. It seems the company is supported on hopes and dreams and Elon Musk's will (and ability to BS) alone.


We agree, but let's not forget for a second, those rich people certainly do use that tax credit which is born off the backs of the poor.

Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:30 PM
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Robtard
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That's an unfair assessment, as the tax credit is for all electric cars and some hybrids. You'd have a point if the credit was only for say electric cars that cost over 85K.


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Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:36 PM
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Blindside12
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If poorer people want to use the credit to buy into the future, that's great, but if your going to drop 100k on a car, you don't need a $7500 break. Why should the tax credit to apply to those who have enough to buy a $75-100k car? And save it for the less fortunate and give them more. Maybe a $15k break instead of $7500. This is common liberal logic.


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"This is my last election, tell Vlad, after my election I will have more flexibility." Barack Obama. This conversation was about US regression of strategic nuclear missile defense in Europe.

Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:38 PM
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Robtard
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Good lord, you're in a mood. If you're proposing the the law be changed to cut off at a certain price point, sure, that could be argued. But when the law was written it was just to push for the sale of electric all around.

I've also not checked, but Trump's tax reform might have killed it as it was initially on the chopping block as one of things to go. Cos Trump hates anything not coal apparently.


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Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:48 PM
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lazybones
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quote:
Originally posted by Blindside12
Weird, air quality keeps getting better in the US despite the unending "Trump, the sky is falling!" Comments from the ignorant.

Yeah, and that's due in large part to the EPA regulations implemented in the 70s-90s period. Trump is moving to defang and disband that agency, by the way.

quote:
Originally posted by cdtm
Emperordmb:

Do liberals generally support protectionism? (In general. Not a criticism of your own beliefs.)


The way I see it, the environment is important to leftists. But so is poverty.

Imports contribute to poverty by taking away work that can be done locally.

Therefore, many leftists should support protectionism, because it helps reduce poverty.

No, this isn't right. Tariffs increase poverty by making prices higher for consumers, the most active of which are the poor. Jobs saved in noncompetitive industries do not make up for that, and there is evidence that tariffs actually cost more jobs than they save. For example, Obama in 2009 implemented tariffs to protect domestic producers of tires from cheap imports, like Trump is doing currently with a far broader range of products. And now? Even liberal outlets like CNN are ready to denounce it as economically harmful, due to a study by the Peterson Insitute of International Economics, which showed that the move lost more jobs than it saved and hurt the economy.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/new...riff/index.html

quote:
President Obama slapped a stiff 35% tariff on Chinese tires in 2009 after American companies complained about unfair competition. They said China was flooding America with tires at low prices making it tough for U.S. companies to compete. The tire tariff gradually waned, and finally ended in 2012.

The tariff saved 1,200 U.S. tire jobs, which had been in sharp decline. And U.S. tire production rose after a major decline.

"Over a thousand Americans are working today because we stopped a surge in Chinese tires," Obama said in his 2012 State of the Union address.

But a study from the Peterson Institute of International Economics found that the tariffs cost Americans in many other ways.

Americans paid more for tires. Some Chinese-made tires cost as much as 26% more -- rising on average to $39 per tire, from about $31. And U.S. tire makers, facing less competition from China, also raised prices on American-made tires 3.2%.

According to Peterson's model, higher prices from the tire tariff cost Americans an extra $1.1 billion, which translated to an estimated 3,731 retail jobs lost.

Plus, China fought back by imposing penalties on U.S. shipments of chicken parts. The Peterson study estimates that China's retaliation cost American chicken producers $1 billion in sales.


This would explain why Obama became more pro-free trade as his term went on. For although there can be negative effects on some sectors from free trade, those can be offset by the economic growth produced and by targeted government action. Protectionism and tariffs are not the way to go, and Trump is ignoring lessons of the past.

Last edited by lazybones on Jan 25th, 2018 at 06:01 PM

Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 05:53 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Good lord, you're in a mood.


That might be my fault. I wasn't having his shit and he may still be upset at me for it.



TI, do you want an apology from me? I don't want you to be upset. I want everything to be okay and I will swallow my pride if a sincere apology helps.


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Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 06:04 PM
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Blindside12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Good lord, you're in a mood. If you're proposing the the law be changed to cut off at a certain price point, sure, that could be argued. But when the law was written it was just to push for the sale of electric all around.

I've also not checked, but Trump's tax reform might have killed it as it was initially on the chopping block as one of things to go. Cos Trump hates anything not coal apparently.


Mood? Again, your projecting.

When Obama was on the coal train, going to all the coal town saying he's bringing back coal. What did you say then?

Can you provide any quotes from yourself over the past 8 years criticizing that as to remain looking unbais and without Animus?

Old Post Jan 25th, 2018 06:23 PM
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Robtard
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The hell are you on about? Obama did initially push for "clean coal", then backed away early because the promising provisions on energy-to-pollution levels he was told where not met (could not be me?)t and as a candidate he had previously and repeatedly made the campaign promise of imposing a 'cap and trade' system set on cutting greenhouse gases by X amount (I forget the figure, but it was high) in the US.

So your narrative is again whacked. Obama was pro-coal at first, but with set conditions.


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Old Post Jan 27th, 2018 12:54 AM
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Blindside12
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So he had no clue about the promises he was making. Made them, then broke them. Sounds about right.

Still waiting on you giving citations to your criticism of him trying to bring back coal. Which you gave when Trump did the same thing.


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"This is my last election, tell Vlad, after my election I will have more flexibility." Barack Obama. This conversation was about US regression of strategic nuclear missile defense in Europe.

Old Post Jan 27th, 2018 02:04 AM
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Robtard
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FFS, however you need to spin it to make yourself feel correct I guess


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Old Post Jan 27th, 2018 03:17 AM
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Blindside12
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It's not spin. He made the same promises then broke them. Why can't you just admit that? Why is "ffs" when pointing out any thing that doesn't make Obama look good?


__________________
"This is my last election, tell Vlad, after my election I will have more flexibility." Barack Obama. This conversation was about US regression of strategic nuclear missile defense in Europe.

Old Post Jan 27th, 2018 04:39 AM
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