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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » How to quantify Darth Plagueis overpowering the Force's will?


How to quantify Darth Plagueis overpowering the Force's will?
Started by: DarthAnt66

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Haschwalth
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2017
Location:


 

Though shouldn't the force of foreseen the choices Anakin would of made.
Gah, no point in thinking about it. PIS is common in fiction.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 07:48 AM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Third: Abeloth was also a cosmic threat, but the Force didn't will any 'Chosen One' to stop her.


What are you even talking about? Abeloth appeared to implement the will of the Force. She's literally the "Chosen One" in that situation, lmao.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 07:53 AM
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ILS
Sith Emperor

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban


 

BTW, I'm not sure why nobody talks about this, but it seems like Plagueis was the one who created Anakin. As in, he manipulated the midichlorians which resulted in his birth, but unwittingly did not realise that the Force passed on it's own will through those midichlorians in birthing a Chosen One.

Plagueis is basically Anakin's dad.

quote:
All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.

The shift had been the outcome of months of intense meditation, during which Plagueis and Sidious had sought to challenge the Force for sovereignty and suffuse the galaxy with the power of the dark side. Brazen and shameless, and at their own mortal peril, they had waged etheric war, anticipating that their own midi-chlorians, the Force’s proxy army, might marshal to boil their blood or stop the beating of their hearts. Risen out of themselves, discorporate and as a single entity, they had brought the power of their will to bear, asserting their sovereignty over the Force. No counterforce had risen against them. In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended.

[shortly after]

Drunk on newfound power, then, he had attempted an even more unthinkable act: to bring into being a creation of his own. Not merely the impregnation of some hapless, mindless creature, but the birth of a Forceful being. The ability to dominate death had been a step in the right direction, but it wasn't equivalent to pure creation. And so he had stretched out-indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated-to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.

But ultimately to no end.

The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases.

Regardless, eight long years later, Plagueis remained convinced that he was on the verge of absolute success. The evidence was in his own increased midi-chlorian count; and in the power he sensed in Sidious when he had finally returned to Sojourn. The dark side of the Force was theirs to command, and in partnership they would someday be able to keep each other alive, and to rule the galaxy for as long as they saw fit.

[they then realise that they succeeded]

“The Chosen One,” Dooku amended. “No. But Qui-Gon accepts it as fact, and the Council is willing to have him tested.”

“What is known about this Anakin?”

“Very little, except for the fact that he was born into slavery nine years ago and was, until recently, along with his mother, the property of Gardulla the Hutt, then a Toydarian junk dealer.” Dooku smirked. “Also that he won the Boonta Eve Classic Podrace.”

Palpatine had stopped listening.

Nine years old... Conceived by the Force... Is it possible...

Plagueis fell back a step, his thoughts reeling.


There was still a chance that the Council would decide that Anakin was too old to be trained as a Jedi. That way, assuming he was returned to Tatooine...

But if not... If Qui-Gon managed to sway the Council Masters, and they reneged on their own dictates...

Plagueis ran a hand over his forehead. Are we undone? he thought. Have you undone us?

--Taken from Darth Plagueis


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 07:57 AM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
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Very interesting, never made that connection.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 08:57 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
Not just anyone can do these things, which is the point, you buffoon.


Obviously by 'anyone' I meant powerful Force-users.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:23 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
What are you even talking about? Abeloth appeared to implement the will of the Force. She's literally the "Chosen One" in that situation, lmao.


How can she implement the will, when she is a dark side/corruptive Force avatar?


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:25 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
BTW, I'm not sure why nobody talks about this, but it seems like Plagueis was the one who created Anakin. As in, he manipulated the midichlorians which resulted in his birth, but unwittingly did not realise that the Force passed on it's own will through those midichlorians in birthing a Chosen One.

Plagueis is basically Anakin's dad.


Wasn't Anakin willed due to the suffuse of dark side power in the galaxy(not due to midi-chlorian alteration)?


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:27 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
Their ritual not only tore open the bubble/aura of Light the Jedi had put over the galaxy, but then replaced it by plunging the galaxy into a greater darkness than ever before. Neither is necessarily good, only one was bad enough to warrant a Chosen One.


So, you agree, it is a ritual, good.

But you forgot some things:
1. It took months
2. It was not a singular act. It was a collective focus(Plagueis and Sidious)
3. It is not combat applicative.

Therefore, I don't see why would you credit Plagueis alone for the 'feat'?
Given that the most powerful Sith Lords of Bane's lineage united their power to do so. It doesn't surprise me.

Besides that, rituals involve other (dark)forces to aid users, not only users' Force strength alone.


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 29th, 2018 at 09:37 AM

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:33 AM
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Haschwalth
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Registered: Jul 2017
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Sounds like the force just got sick, of plageuis/Sidious ****ing with it. And used Plageuis's creation against them, to **** with them back.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:33 AM
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ILS
Sith Emperor

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
So, you agree, it is a ritual, good.

But you forgot some things:
1. It took months
2. It was not a singular act. It was a collective focus(Plagueis and Sidious)
3. It is not combat applicative.

Therefore, I don't see why would you credit Plagueis alone for the 'feat'?
Given that the most powerful Sith Lords of Bane's lineage united their power to do so. It doesn't surprise me.

Besides that, rituals involve other (dark)forces to aid users, not only users' Force strength alone.
...it was a meditation ritual, it didn't have any external contributions aside from Plagueis and Sidious' willpower. Repeating ad nauseam that it took months doesn't change the fact that it's consequences were more dire than anything else up to that point, which includes countless wars, deaths, genocides, extinctions, etc.

You're failing to grasp that Sidious and Plagueis' sheer will was powerful enough to "irrevocably tip" the Force into a shroud of darkness, "not a mere paradigm shift but a tangible alteration felt by all strong in the Force." The Dark Side had never proliferated the Force to such an extreme extent in all of history. The Jedi could barely access their foresight because of it, despite the likes of Yoda being extremely capable seers.

And as for combat, given that telepathy is largely a consequence of 1. Willpower. 2. Force power and 3. Mastery, and given that the the will of the Force tends to be quite a difficult thing to change with just the Force of your mind, I would say the feat reflects extremely positively on Plagueis' telepathic and general power.

But by all means, remain in denial if you must.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:43 AM
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LordOfTheLight
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Very interesting, never made that connection.


I've been saying the same thing to you now for quite some time.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:46 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Sounds like the force just got sick, of plageuis/Sidious ****ing with it. And used Plageuis's creation against them, to **** with them back.


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:52 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

"not a mere paradigm shift but a tangible alteration felt by all strong in the Force."

That's because Luceno's philosophy of the Force is that the dark side shrouding the 'galaxy' is an act of total corruption. To, Luceno, the dark side is not a part of the Force, like in Drew Karpyshyn's dual Force philosophy.


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:55 AM
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ILS
Sith Emperor

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban


 

2/10, too retarded thumb down


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“The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:57 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

Also if Plagueis was such a threat to the Force. Then the Force wouldn't will into existence a Chosen One, nor kill his experiments, but instead it would kill the Muun.


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 09:58 AM
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ILS
Sith Emperor

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban


 

sick


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“The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 10:00 AM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

Stop talking to Freedumb Nadd, ILS. It's a waste of time.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 10:18 AM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
I've been saying the same thing to you now for quite some time.


Sorry, but I don't recall you telling me that. Might have missed it.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 10:19 AM
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Nephthys
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It doesn't really say anything about his standing ability or combat power.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 11:00 AM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Sheev used the same technique (sheer will) to create Force storms, the most destructive Force power in existence, so go figure.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2018 12:49 PM
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