I see no reason to believe it wouldn't be both, given that even Darth Bane felt the energy of the dark side saturating Nadd's tomb millennia later, when it would have begun wearing off. And yes, it is heavily implied that Nadd, who has a history of amplifying the power of individuals in his spirit form (see Ommin and Amanoa), was the power "moving around him" that "wanted to help him."
Kun with a nexus amp + Nadd's spirit actively empowering him (unlocking his potential is said nowhere), could well have been absorbed into his full power later on, but I find it important to note that he had a not inconsiderable amount of external power helping him during the feat.
If you're going to use this as a benchmark for comparing their power, why not use a more standard benchmark; their ability to destroy lightsaber-resistant weapons. As we saw, both Vodo's staff and Mighella's sword are lightsaber-proof materials. Vodo's is the result of him actively pouring energy into the weapon, meaning when Kun destroyed it, it was likely when Vodo was near the end of his reserves after receiving a thrashing both times. Whereas Maul was able to snap Mighella's perpetually lightsaber-proof weapon under the weight of his strikes after a brief clash. Add in Maul's own considerable feats like frequently tussling with larger-than-life monsters in strength contests, destroying durasteel droids with his strikes, casually deflecting Savage Opress' blows (which have hurled Dooku, something even Anakin has failed to achieve despite his own immense strength feats) and then bending his wrist out of shape, and decapitating a varactyl with his bare hands (the latter being without active Force augmentation), and I see no reason to suggest Kun is more powerful than Maul physically.
Not in any way that aids your forced comparison of what are Kun's most notable and distinct feats (which, no surprise, is why your argument seems to rest entirely on two feats which virtually nobody else has attempted and which are the only areas Kun could conceivably have an edge in, that is knocking down a Beskar wall and Force stunning non-Force sensitives - hardly compelling proof overall).
And again, by your own logic, legends are marred by embellishment and the like, so why not point out that such incredible feats as destroying a wall of Beskar are far from the truth?
I'm not aware of any grandiose acrobatics on Vodo's part, and given that Jinn would easily outduel many people who engage in the over the top acrobatics, like Aayla Secura for example, your argument seems to fall short. Just because someone doesn't expend unnecessary energy using acrobatics, it doesn't mean that of the energy they do choose to expend they are "cheapened as a fighter." It means that as far as Jinn's fighting style is concerned, his ability as a fighter stands on it's own. He frequently humbled Anoon Bondara, who engaged in plenty of acrobatics in the short time we saw him, so again, your argument makes little sense, however cunning it may have been. Jinn was just as fast and stronger than his much younger apprentice, Obi-Wan. Jinn has to conserve more energy because of his flagging stamina, but of the energy he does utilise, he still operates at a high level.
And let’s make it clear, not only was Maul thrashing Jinn on Tatooine, having him within one strike of death and totally exhausted within just 30 seconds, but when he was fighting the pair of Jedi, he did so comfortably, eclipsing both of their skill, leading them through the battlefield at his leisure, and was not even breathing hard by the end of it; so explain to me how this cheapens Maul as a fighter.
I think you can appreciate that there are many different ways we can compare Maul and Exar, different types of feats, accolades or any combination of them, but if you're just going to spend the entire debate trying to force comparisons on incredibly narrow areas that best suit Kun and worst suit the opposition, misrepresent information and make fallacious arguments for which I can only assume is pure sport, then I'm not sure I want to waste time on this debate. Ball's in your court, either way.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Indeed. Ziggy's argument seems to be that Kun absorbed the full power of Nadd's spirit and a nexus amp into his own power upon reaching his prime, simply because he killed Nadd later on.
You don't need to be more than twice as powerful as someone to kill them, so it could well be that in that select moment, Kun was striking harder than he ever had. And as Zenwolf said, walls don't hit back, it's unclear how long it took Kun to break through.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
No, the grey brackets are not the door, funnily enough; the glass door you open and then walk through is the door. Beskar can and has been built in the form of transparisteel glass, and given that these doors were built for a prison, I'm presuming structural integrity was kept in mind during their construction.
So yeah, Savage Opress casually shatters Beskar, whereas Kun required excessive amplification to do the same. If Kun could have used TK to carry out his feat, I'm sure he would have. Granted the Beskar he had to destroy was thicker than in Savage's feat.
Either way it's not much of an argument for Kun.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
That's like saying every single Banite Sith grew twice as powerful upon learning all of their master's secrets, starting with Zannah, which frankly is a stance I have no issues with you committing to.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Kun also adjusts his lightsaber to its highest intensity, it wasn't on max power beforehand.
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Although it says that Kun "senses a power moving around him.... a power that wants to help him", it isn't clear that Kun actually got any help from Nadd for this feat.
It's a factual statement that the door is the glass, and the door is made of Mandalorian Iron, therefore, the glass is made of Mandalorian Iron. That he didn't destroy the supports doesn't detract from anything I said. Yes you did. I said:
And you replied:
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Give me a quote stating beskar can be put into glass that looks like and functions as glass but still remains the properties of ultra-mandalorian armor. Otherwise the beskar is just the frames, which it blatantly is anyway.
Unless you want to argue Savage can only break 1 inch thick shit-glass-beskar and can't break quality beskar.
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I agreed Kun might have consumed Nadd's power, not that he grew double in power.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Feb 9th, 2018 at 12:59 PM
- From Strategic Resources of the Galaxy, by Pilas Manaitis
- Taken from 501st
Credit to zenwolf.
So your arguments that 1. the glass door made of Mandalorian Iron isn't made of Mandalorian Iron, and that 2. It's shit-tier, when only Mandalorians know how to maximise it's properties, which they would have done when constructing a prison cell (opposed to the Jedi, who no doubt received no help from the Mandalorians in sealing Nadd's tomb), are both utterly retarded.
The argument that Kun absorbed all of Nadd's power into his own is pretty unfounded.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
If a prison door designed for full structural integrity is entirely made out of glass, and that glass is made of Mandalorian Iron which can be moulded into any form, I wonder what it's made out of. Really tough one to figure out that. Perhaps the brilliant minds in this thread can give us further clarity.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
It seems like the cells and the feat are both completely different in the book than they are in the cartoon. In the book he just rips it off its hinges. I'd be interested to know if theres any indication the cells are still transparent in the book, like if Maul can still have his face to face conversation with Sabine in it.
Also it seems like an invalid comparison, since Kun smashes it with a lightsaber as opposed to Savage using the Force. Savage also doesn't do it "casually", he needs effort to do it and its thin glass as opposed to a thick wall.
I never claimed he was capable of destroying those supports with the amount of energy he used in that feat. They're obviously more durable than the glass.
It's very simple Ant. The glass is made of lightsaber-resistant Beskar, Savage destroyed it, and instead of taking the text as self-evident by drawing upon the power of the English language, you needed to be spoonfed a source. Now you're strawmanning to regain some semblance of self-respect.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Feb 9th, 2018 12:17 PM
