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Apprenticed to both grandmaster Yoda and Darth Sidious within his lifetime, Count Dooku was, objectively speaking, one of the most well-rounded force users to have existed within the Star Wars mythos due to his vast experience in the teachings of both the Jedi and Sith from the very best mentors. Described as being a man of “immense power—both physical and mental” [1], Dooku proved himself as a force to be reckoned with on numerous occasions throughout the prequel trilogy and The Clone Wars series. Of the various opponents he engaged with, he was only ever stalemated by two—his former master, Yoda, and the force prodigy, “The Chosen One”, Anakin Skywalker who would eventually kill Dooku.
The purpose of this essay is to analyze a hypothetical battle between Darth Tyranus and Maul, and determine where the greatest disparity(s) between them lie. The main areas of focus will encompass the following: Raw force power: This aspect of force ability is mainly seen in the most basic of applications, such as broad, sweeping telekinetic attacks (e.g force waves, unfocused pushes against multiple opponents, etc) and is measured via the magnitude of the attack; in other words how much damage/work was done in the shortest period of time due directly to the force user’s level of power. A user’s raw force power is seen in its purest form through basic attacks where we can deduce that the damage done is due solely to the strength of it and not mastery of a skill, like force-lightning, although exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis. I personally believe that this category of force ability is the best indicator of a user’s midichlorian count or force potential due to it not requiring much background knowledge or skill but rather a strong working connection to the force (though this in-itself requires strong mental focus).
Raw force ability is significant to this battle as it will determine which opponent has the higher number of midichlorians, and hence the greatest force reserves which corresponds with endurance, that in turn predicts the amount of energy an opponent can afford to spend on various abilities (e.g augmentation, telekinetic attacks, acrobatics, etc) before suffering from force fatigue.
Force knowledge: This category is fairly straight-forward. Knowledge simply refers to how well-rounded a user is with various aspects
combative and not—of the force. A good analogy might be “how many tricks does the magician have up their sleeve?”. Because the sources being used in this debate are limited, I expect this category to be the least important as variation among different force abilities in The Clone Wars and the prequel trilogy are greatly restricted to telekinesis-based maneuvers, force lightning, and perhaps telepathy.
Having a large ‘library’ of force abilities can be beneficial in combat as one opponent can exploit the ignorance of their adversary to off-set them.
Force mastery/skill: Of course having a large working knowledge of force abilities is meaningless if a user is simply a poor executioner. Force mastery/skill refers to the actual effort, refinement, and overall practice that a user has dedicated towards a chosen skill. It correlates with the experience of a user more-so than their midichlorian count or raw overall power. What a user with a mediocre midichlorian count lacks in raw power they can make up for with mastery of the force. A basic example, when referring to telekinesis, could be the difference between blasting away multiple opponents at once versus levitating and manipulating a small object via precise, focused movements that require a certain level of pre-existing control and practice. Not every force-sensitive possesses the power aptitude to blast away multiple opponents, but everyone has the ability to hone, master, and improve upon what they already have. In short, force mastery refers to the control an individual has over their natural abilities; how efficient are they?
Mastery is arguably the most important aspect of the force in a combat situation as it determines how well an opponent applies a given attack or move-set. A user can have all the raw power they want, but without complete control over that power they are exposed to direct attacks from weaker users who can exploit such openings.
Lightsaber skill/mastery: Lightsaber skill refers to how familiar a combatant is with the technicalities of combat. It is entirely omissive of force abilities, like speed and strength augmentation, and simply looks at how a combatant fights, their form’s strengths and weaknesses, how much experience they have in combat, and how effective they are, taking into account these different factors. Without written statements and narratives this ability will be difficult to gauge for both Maul and Dooku, but visual cues should provide enough information to make the appropriate conclusions.
The significance of lightsaber combat is fairly straight-forward. Although I believe that it will not be the determining factor of this fight, it is important to analyze the respective abilities of each combatant.
Physical augmentation/endurance: This category is in purple as I am unsure whether to classify it as a mostly physical or force-related ability. Because this debate is only concerning canon, and more specifically a handful of films and The Clone Wars, we don’t have possess sufficient written statements attributing the speed, strength, and endurance of a character to mainly force prowess, physical abilities, or a combination of both. This category is the most malleable from a debate stand-point.
Again, for obvious reasons, this category is one of the more important ones in a fight. Can a user compensate for physical shortcomings using the force? By how much? Under what circumstances? Consistently or in bursts? Etc, etc.
Environmental conditions/other factors: This category accounts for anything other than what was already mentioned. The mental standing of a character to physical constraints of another’s weapon and armor. Anything goes here.
While deemed insignificant by few, these small environmental factors can often make or break a fight between two relatively evenly matched opponents.
So on to the questions at hand:
Has Maul demonstrated any abilities, force and dueling-wise, that suggest he’s a superior combatant to Dooku in one-to-one combat?
Answer: No
Well why not?
Let’s first establish Dooku as being the more powerful opponent by focusing on his most powerful (remember, potential damage over time) feats:
…but not without some quotes directly related to the visual material 😊 !
Yoda is surprised by Dooku’s power growth and states so: ”powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I sense in you.” [2]
Dave Filoni, creator of The Clone Wars, also speaks to Dooku’s power in the force: “Now, I agree wholeheartedly that Dooku is incredibly powerful.”
He then continues and claims that Dooku is capable of killing 15 armed pirates without his lightsaber before being shot: ”But the fact remains: if he gets into a fight with thirty pirates – yes, he might kill fifteen of them – but he will be shot, and he will go down.” [3]
Dooku is more powerful than Karis imagined, even though Ventress had warned her of his power: ”He is stronger than I imagined…”
“I warned you.” [4]
Savage Opress states that Dooku is too powerful for him to kill:
”Kill him! Kill him, you fool!”
“I…can’t. He’s too…powerful.” [5]
And, as I opened up with, Christopher Lee himself: “I play a character called Count Dooku, a battle-scarred Jedi. He’s obviously a man of immense power—mental power, and physical power.”
So now that we’ve gotten an overall feeling for Tyranus’s power with the force we can move on to some of his best demonstrated power feats:
Dooku telekinetically throws various objects at Yoda, forcing the jedi master to drop his cane and audibly grunt in the effort needed to defend from Dooku’s attacks [6]. It should be noted that Yoda has been shown being capable of outright dominating force users like Asajj Ventress, in a casual manner, hand-on-cane, with minimal effort [7]. Using this as a comparison should demonstrate the raw power Tyranus possesses when compared to that of Yoda and above-average force users like Maul and Ventress.
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Tyranus incapacitates several clone troopers with a single blast of force lightning:
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He outright tanks a telekinetic assault by Anakin Skywalker and redirects it back toward him, with the latter being completely defenseless against Dooku’s power:
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This concludes the portion analyzing Dooku’s force abilities as it relates to his raw power. This is by no means a complete list, but rather the most notable occurrences.
The message that should be taken away by these feats in regards to the battle at hand is that Tyranus has Maul completely out-classed when it comes to strength in the force. Maul has simply never demonstrated any abilities to put him on a league close to Dooku’s—both offensively and defensively. The Count of course knows about this advantage, and will not hesitate to employ it the moment Maul leaves an opening; although even this is not the case as Maul has not displayed any properties to suggest he can defend himself from a force attack as powerful as Dooku’s.
Now, having a strong connection to the force is great and all, but in a hybrid duel utilizing both the force and lightsabers, it might as well be worthless if a user is not adept at employing various force attacks into their light-saber technique and move-sets.
Fortunately, Dooku has demonstrated great skill when it comes to implementing his powerful force abilities with his legendary light-saber form. We will now consider Dooku’s skill with this:
Dooku implements saber throw during his duel with Yoda, moving quickly enough to almost maim the Jedi grandmaster: (please log in to view the image)
He quickly counters a lightsaber attack from Obi-Wan and finishes him with a force push: (please log in to view the image)
Tyranus again bests Kenobi by blocking his lightsaber attack and implementing a telekinetic attack to rag-doll him; all while fending off Skywalker: (please log in to view the image)
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Dooku outdoes Savage Opress with his light-saber technique, disarms him, and distracts him just long enough to seize him with the force: (please log in to view the image)
The Count incorporates an effectively placed force push into his move-set to defeat Asajj Ventress: (please log in to view the image)
Dooku again incorporates various telekinetic attacks into his saber-dueling technique: (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)
He incorporates force-lightning into his movesets against Savage Opress while fighting Ventress: (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)
The purpose of presenting these various clips is to demonstrate just how versatile Dooku really was with his force abilities in combat. Even when facing multiple blades, all on him at once, Tyranus was skillful at employing various attacks against his opponents the moment they presented an opening.
If during their duel Maul ever presses the more experienced Sith in light-saber combat, he will quickly find himself eating a mouthful of lightning or hovering above the ground in a telekinetic grip.
Unlike Dooku, who has rarely been outplayed in regards to a force attack (or even a physical one), Maul has demonstrated a few instances where his defenses have been exploited; whether it be through the other opponent’s wit or an opening in his technique:
Obi-Wan, even after being severely beaten and tortured by the Maul brothers, successfully implements a force push into his technique to temporarily put Maul of the fight: (please log in to view the image)
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Kenobi successfully incorporates his martial-arts prowess into his light-saber technique and exploits Maul’s defenses with multiple strikes: (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)
Simply put, Maul has suffered several instances where his lightsaber move-set has been interrupted by Kenobi—who himself has never done anything similar to Dooku, and actually has had his defenses exploited by him—to a significant degree, often putting him out of the fight for several moments.
Now Maul has demonstrated a few isolated instances where he has incorporated a kick or force push onto his opponent. However, I don’t believe this would be of any threat to Dooku for the following reasons:
1.) No opponent who Dooku has faced in the material being discussed has ever been able to successfully implement a force-attack or physical strike into their lightsaber technique and have it affect him. Those who have tried have either had it turned against him (as in the case of the sand tornado in The Clone Wars movie), or have simply been out-maneuvered.
2.) Tyranus has been shown to possess an extraordinary gift with the force sense and force sight abilities, in addition to his own mastery of the ability to predict an opponent’s attacks in battle. This has been shown various times throughout the TV series and has allowed Dooku to simply dodge and evade an opponent’s attacks without so much as lifting an arm. I will provide the following examples as proof:
He dodges various light-saber attacks:
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Dooku defeats Ventress and the nightsisters entirely blind, relying solely on force vision and force sense to guide his movement:
”I do not need my eyes to see you, jedi.” [8].
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3.) Finally, Dooku has demonstrated numerous instances where he himself has implemented debilitating physical strikes, rendering the claim that Maul somehow has a martial arts, or even physical, advantage over him as unlikely:
Dooku controls the motion of Ventress’s lightsaber against her will and then kicks her to the floor, rendering her useless for several moments:
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Kicks her across the room:
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Nearly ends Kenobi’s life with a well-incorporated kick:
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Staggers Anakin with a kick to the mid-section:
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Sends Anakin sprawling with a fluidly integrated round-house kick to the back of the head, while also dueling Kenobi:
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Sends Anakin flying and temporarily puts him out of the fight with a back-kick:
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What you should deduce from this is that Dooku is at no disadvantage when it comes to dealing with Maul up-close and personal. I’ve shown how Maul’s defenses have been exploited before, explained why the few instances in where Maul has successfully implemented his own martial-art or force pushes would not affect Dooku, and have demonstrated how well-versed Tyranus himself is with anticipating attacks and countering them.
In short, Dooku is a powerhouse of finesse and precision who’s strong connection with the force coupled with his experience allows him to predict an opponent’s attack and counter it with ease. There is nothing Maul can bring that Dooku hasn’t dealt with before.
This leads me to the final topic at hand—lightsaber prowess between these two adversaries. Due to time constraints, I will not be covering this topic in great detail within my opening post. While Maul has been presented as a competent light-saber duelist throughout the The Phantom Menance and The Clone Wars, I have little reason to believe that he rivals Dooku in regards to pure skill.
Because the version of Maul in this fight is his end of Clone Wars iteration, I will be putting more emphasis on his portrayal during that era than his portrayal in The Phantom Menance due to his change in weapon and fighting style.
Maul’s greatest feat in light-saber dueling was arguably his brief ability to match Darth Sidious on Mandalore. Dooku’s most impressive moment was when he contended with Yoda on Geonosis. Some important differences to note here:
- Maul was only able to put up this performance after receiving a visible “rage-amp” from a combination of Sidious killing his brother in addition to letting his former apprentice know that he was now irrelevant and had “been replaced” by Dooku.
- Dooku had no reason to be extremely motivated against, or in other words “amped”, against his former master and arguably was at a disadvantage due to having just fought the Obi-Wan and Anakin duo prior to Yoda’s arrival.
- We know for sure that Sidious’s intentions were to capture, not kill, Maul as he verbally says so at the end of their fight [9] while Yoda’s intentions are unknown to us (at least in the sources being used for this debate 😉 ). There is reason to believe that Sidious was holding back against Maul because of this, hence reducing the impressiveness of this feat.
- Perhaps the strongest argument for diminishing Maul’s performance against Sidious when compared to that of Dooku against Yoda is the argument that Yoda is more powerful than Sidious in both lightsaber and force combat. An acceptable analysis of the fight in Revenge of the Sith can be found in the appropriate footnote [10], but in brief, the argued points are the following:
• Sidious tried to run away from Yoda
• Yoda over-powers Sidious in several blade-locks while the latter doesn’t.
• Yoda over-powers Sidious in their force fight and only loses due to chance and not a disparity
- Despite these differences, Dooku was able to successfully fight Yoda to a stalemate, while Maul was swiftly over-powered, disarmed, and captured by Sidious.
Unless Maul experiences a similar “rage amp” as he did against Sidious, he is highly unlikely to challenge Dooku in a lightsaber contest, and even he could, it would be negated by the significant force-power and skill-prowess advantage that Dooku possesses that was already discussed in detail.
I will incorporate the environmental conditions category into the conclusion of this opening statement.
Maul has shown himself to be a mentally unbalanced individual after his defeat at the hands of Kenobi in The Phantom Menance. It is not implausible to believe that his mental illness has affected his judgement in battle in some manner, as his obsession with finding and hunting down Kenobi has led him to ignore/forget what’s happening around him (e.g failure to detect his pirates betraying him, failure to realize Pre-Vizsla’s plans to betray him, blinding arrogance in general, etc). This lack of attention to detail can be exploited in creative ways on the battle-field, especially by someone like Dooku who has demonstrated the qualities that Maul lacks.
LMFAO how is this a serious debate? Their comparative performances against Obi Wan should make it clear enough that Dooku is in another league, particularly when several out of universe people working on the films have stated that Dooku > Maul.
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Why would they believe Maul>Dooku? Maul is just a Sith assassin.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
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Absurd. This just takes time and I don't have the time to devote over the weekend. I have begun the work and expect a lengthy rebuttal and argument for Maul next week.
Feb 6th, 2018 02:49 PM
