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Super Bowl 52
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
yHe was not blindsided he just wasn't clutch and made a huge mistake. He still had time and one last drive but was unable to win the game. The Seahawks game was a lucky interception on the two yard line. Brady is great just not the best. He's a cheater who has benefited from a decade of cheating and was just recently out dueled by Nick Foles.
Brady was in mid-throwing motion, there is not a single QB who could've avoided that fumble. The Philly d-lineman just made a great play at the right time. And Brady only had 1 minute to drive the ball 90 yards with 0 timeouts and no outside receivers... He's goat but these type of situations are generally impossible.

The Seahawks game was not lucky. Brady put the Pats in the lead late in the 4th quarter and Butler diagnosed a play he'd seen in practice a thousand times and jumped it to prevent Seattle's comeback.

As far as cheating, that's just what the whiny losers come up with

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 09:58 PM
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quanchi112
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Originally posted by Firefly218
Brady was in mid-throwing motion, there is not a single QB who could've avoided that fumble. The Philly d-lineman just made a great play at the right time. And Brady only had 1 minute to drive the ball 90 yards with 0 timeouts and no outside receivers... He's goat but these type of situations are generally impossible.

The Seahawks game was not lucky. Brady put the Pats in the lead late in the 4th quarter and Butler diagnosed a play he'd seen in practice a thousand times and jumped it to prevent Seattle's comeback.

As far as cheating, that's just what the whiny losers come up with
Again since he wasn't blindsided he shouldn't have been throwing the ball with someone in close proximity. I hear excuses but bottom line he failed. It's ok no ones perfect but quit making excuses for the guy.

See Brady somehow gets credit for the defensive play that changed the game but in this game he deserves none of the blame for the offensive play.

They had evidence with spy gate the NFL destroyed it would have tarnished the brand. Deflate gate was just hilarious and it wasn't made up he had to serve a suspension. Their legacy will for ever be tainted by two huge cheating scandals like it or not.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 10:10 PM
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dadudemon
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Originally posted by Flyattractor
Gotty Love those Eagles Fans. Buncha fukcing....

Eagles Win Super Bowl....Philly Celebrates by...RIOTING? Fark Philly.



Which is stupid. People in Philly already predicted this would happen if the Eagles won or lost. That's just stupid.

"My team won! Let's destroy shit!"

"My team lost! Let's destroy shit!"


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 10:30 PM
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Firefly218
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Originally posted by quanchi112
Again since he wasn't blindsided he shouldn't have been throwing the ball with someone in close proximity. I hear excuses but bottom line he failed. It's ok no ones perfect but quit making excuses for the guy.

See Brady somehow gets credit for the defensive play that changed the game but in this game he deserves none of the blame for the offensive play.

They had evidence with spy gate the NFL destroyed it would have tarnished the brand. Deflate gate was just hilarious and it wasn't made up he had to serve a suspension. Their legacy will for ever be tainted by two huge cheating scandals like it or not.
Spygate was legal before 2006 and every team was doing it. 2007 was the first year the league banned filming the opponents defensive signals from the sidelines, coaches booth or locker room. Here is the exact NFL memo on filming your opponents.

"No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game. All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

So filming your opponents is legal, the only mistake made by the Pats was filming in the wrong area.



As far as DeflateGate there is literally no evidence of wrongdoing on Brady's part. The Wells report was laughed out of court and rife with holes and even admits that there's no proof of wrongdoing. The reasoning behind Brady's suspension was that he didn't cooperate with the investigation, not because of cheating. And ultimately the whole controversy can be boiled down to the Ideal Gas Law.

The NFL even said that they would check and record the air pressures of balls throughout the next season and they still havn't released the data. Because it they know they'll look ridiculous for all the hooplah they made about DeflateGate. Not to mention the Steelers were caught with similarly deflated balls the next year and Goodell didn't do a thing...

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...lert-nfl-121116



Ultimately the NFL is made up of 31 teams that all hate the New England Patriots and want them to fail. That's where these "scandals" come from. You can't beat Brady on the field so you beat him off the field no expression

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 10:30 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
How about making a direct statement instead of hiding behind "clever" vagaries? Because you should not have made your statement in the context of this thread and you most certainly should not have made it towards me. thumb up

Well sure, but I think the onus is as much on the person responding to a claim to dispense with the vagary by actually asking for clarification as much as it is on the person speaking to be precise in their speech, that way it's hard for a misunderstanding to occur.

Surtur perhaps should have made that point clear, but at the same time I don't think the appropriate response was to assume the worst possible position for his statement to imply when he himself never actually said they should be legally compelled to what he views as proper behavior.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 10:44 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
Spygate was legal before 2006 and every team was doing it. 2007 was the first year the league banned filming the opponents defensive signals from the sidelines, coaches booth or locker room. Here is the exact NFL memo on filming your opponents.

"No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game. All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

So filming your opponents is legal, the only mistake made by the Pats was filming in the wrong area.



As far as DeflateGate there is literally no evidence of wrongdoing on Brady's part. The Wells report was laughed out of court and rife with holes and even admits that there's no proof of wrongdoing. The reasoning behind Brady's suspension was that he didn't cooperate with the investigation, not because of cheating. And ultimately the whole controversy can be boiled down to the Ideal Gas Law.

The NFL even said that they would check and record the air pressures of balls throughout the next season and they still havn't released the data. Because it they know they'll look ridiculous for all the hooplah they made about DeflateGate. Not to mention the Steelers were caught with similarly deflated balls the next year and Goodell didn't do a thing...

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...lert-nfl-121116



Ultimately the NFL is made up of 31 teams that all hate the New England Patriots and want them to fail. That's where these "scandals" come from. You can't beat Brady on the field so you beat him off the field no expression
So they cheated by taping areas they weren't allowed to and I've heard all kinds of stories suggesting nefarious dealings in foxboro. You don't destroy evidence if it's nothing. Mangini his former assistant called him out because he knew. Believe whatever you want.

Brady didn't even deny it publicly and I heard the rampant speculation, etc. for all the deflate gate talk. It's obvious they couldn't directly tie him but that it was plainly going around for their benefit.

Stain is still there and lots of people agree who don't love or hate the patriots. Damage is done perception wise.

Philly just beat them on the field. 5-3. That's three times they lost in the big game and against a backup QB no less.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:20 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well sure, but I think the onus is as much on the person responding to a claim to dispense with the vagary by actually asking for clarification as much as it is on the person speaking to be precise in their speech, that way it's hard for a misunderstanding to occur.

Surtur perhaps should have made that point clear, but at the same time I don't think the appropriate response was to assume the worst possible position for his statement to imply when he himself never actually said they should be legally compelled to what he views as proper behavior.


Indeed the players are free to say or protest what they want, but people are also free to react to it. I think a majority of people didn't think the players should be banned from doing it, they merely thought they shouldn't be doing it.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:24 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well sure, but I think the onus is as much on the person responding to a claim to dispense with the vagary by actually asking for clarification as much as it is on the person speaking to be precise in their speech, that way it's hard for a misunderstanding to occur.

Surtur perhaps should have made that point clear, but at the same time I don't think the appropriate response was to assume the worst possible position for his statement to imply when he himself never actually said they should be legally compelled to what he views as proper behavior.


There's nothing new being added to the conversation. There's nothing here to which I can topically respond, disagree, or agree.


Can you please respond with more substance or actually take a position? If you do not want to, that's okay.


Here's my position on it so you do not get confused or feel like I'm being a hypocrite:

There's nothing wrong - and I even greatly applaud - athletes protesting at games by taking a knee during the national anthem. This is America. We can do that shit here. Thankfully.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Indeed the players are free to say or protest what they want, but people are also free to react to it. I think a majority of people didn't think the players should be banned from doing it, they merely thought they shouldn't be doing it.


Why should they not be doing it?


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:39 PM
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Firefly218
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Originally posted by dadudemon
This is America. We can do that shit here. Thankfully.
thumb up Not to mention that Kap's decision to kneel came from the advice of a veteran and was specially designed to not disrespect the flag

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:41 PM
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Surtur
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Surely you're aware of the reasons people found it disrespectful lol. I'm certainly not going to get into them again because it's not a debate I'm eager to have again.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:41 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
There's nothing new being added to the conversation. There's nothing here to which I can topically respond, disagree, or agree.

Can you please respond with more substance or actually take a position? If you do not want to, that's okay.

Here's my position on it so you do not get confused or feel like I'm being a hypocrite:

There's nothing wrong - and I even greatly applaud - athletes protesting at games by taking a knee during the national anthem. This is America. We can do that shit here. Thankfully.

And I don't think it's inappropriate to disagree with the way someone uses their first amendment rights while still respecting their right to express themselves as they see fit.

By that logic you can't say there's anything wrong with Surtur expressing his disapproval for their protesting as long as he still respects that they do and should have the right to do so, because after all that's Surtur using his first amendment rights to express disagreement with something. This is America. He can do that shit here. Thankfully.

Surtur even specifically stated in his most recent post on his thread that he agrees with their right to free speech just that he disagrees with how they exercise their right... which is an acceptable position to take otherwise I'd have to applaud people who promulgate messages I find deeply immoral even if I fundamentally believe they should have their right to do so protected at a constitutional level.

My issue is that you seem to me to be conflating disagreement with someone's speech with opposition to the first amendment, and I could be completely wrong here and if I am I welcome the correction in this regard.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:46 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Surely you're aware of the reasons people found it disrespectful lol. I'm certainly not going to get into them again because it's not a debate I'm eager to have again.
Since when is kneeling a sign of disrespect? And you should know that the protest has nothing to do with the military or the flag, it's about police brutality and other forms of racism.

Also, forcing people to stand for the national anthem is what dictatorships do, not America.

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:49 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
Since when is kneeling a sign of disrespect? And you should know that the protest has nothing to do with the military or the flag, it's about police brutality and other forms of racism.

Also, forcing people to stand for the national anthem is what dictatorships do, not America.


It really depends on context, but are you seriously going to sit there and pretend like you are unaware of the argument for why people found it disrespectful?


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 11:51 PM
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dadudemon
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Originally posted by Emperordmb
And I don't think it's inappropriate to disagree with the way someone uses their first amendment rights while still respecting their right to express themselves as they see fit.


And why would you feel the need to clarify something like this? Do you understand why I think it's weird to clarify something that doesn't need to be clarified? It's a "captain obvious" statement. Seems you're going out of your way to try to antagonize me or act the contrarian. What was going through your mind when you quoted my post and stated the green things are green? Remember, my statement is that people (specifically, adults) should not be getting so butthurt over people very respectfully and passively protesting. "But, dadudemon, it's not inappropriate for people to disagree with each other!" Great! Irrelevant, but great! Glad you pointed that out. Anything relevant to add, however?


Read about and see some examples of the the butthurt, here:

http://thebiglead.com/2017/09/26/an...y-ruinous-ways/



So is your position really "people disagree with each other" or do you have a better point to make? Don't quote my posts and say nothing. Say something of substance. Do you disagree with the respectful, passive protests? If so, state why. If you don't, then there's no need to respond to me.


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Last edited by dadudemon on Feb 6th, 2018 at 12:05 AM

Old Post Feb 6th, 2018 12:02 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
It really depends on context, but are you seriously going to sit there and pretend like you are unaware of the argument for why people found it disrespectful?



Here's an article about why people feel so disrespected:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/op...e174191081.html



I think it captures it quite well. It's like spitting on someone's traditions to them.


quote:
What I’ve heard most is, because the protesting players are being disrespectful. They’re disrespecting our flag. Disrespecting our country. Disrespecting our servicemen and women who’ve died defending our country and our flag.

That’s what people say. But maybe there’s another reason.

Deep down what people really don’t like, whether they know it or not and whether they can admit it or not, is the players’ disrespecting them.

We love our country. We love our flag. We love what it stands for. We have a tradition of standing before the game to show that honor. It’s people’s own showing of respect that they don’t like being disrespected.

The fact is, though Americans are taught (used to be taught?) to revere the Bill of Rights, we don’t like protests. Especially not while a song glorifying our country is being sung, or a big flag being unfurled, or our military flying mightily overhead.

We may be willing to acknowledge generally that our country has made mistakes, but we don’t want to have to see, don’t want to have to think about, our specific imperfections, past or present. We don’t want to think about the implications of those imperfections, now or in the future. We know precisely the mistakes and imperfections these particular guys are protesting and a lot of people particularly don’t like seeing or thinking about that.

If we see, we might just see some things that aren’t good.

If we see, we might have to admit some things should change.

If we see, we might ourselves be changed. That’s what scares us.

This is why we don’t want protests where 75,000 of us are gathered on sunny Sundays celebrating our team and – in those singing, flag-waving, fly-over moments – our country’s greatness.

We like protests to happen at appointed places and times, off in some designated someplace we are not. Makes it easier to not see them.

We like protesters corralled into approved areas that are often called, cynically, “First Amendment Zones.” Makes it easier not to hear them.

Here’s something we might try at the next game. As our hearts fill with patriotic pride and our voices rise in that final crescendo about the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave – let’s see if we’re free enough and brave enough to risk seeing the things about our great country that challenge us.

That might make us uncomfortable.

That might rattle us in a different way than the jets flying overhead.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2018 12:08 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
And why would you feel the need to clarify something like this? Do you understand why I think it's weird to clarify something that doesn't need to be clarified? It's a "captain obvious" statement. Seems you're going out of your way to try to antagonize me or act the contrarian. What was going through your mind when you quoted my post and stated the green things are green? Remember, my statement is that people (specifically, adults) should not be getting so butthurt over people very respectfully and passively protesting. "But, dadudemon, it's not inappropriate for people to disagree with each other!" Great! Irrelevant, but great! Glad you pointed that out. Anything relevant to add, however?


Read about and see some examples of the the butthurt, here:

http://thebiglead.com/2017/09/26/an...y-ruinous-ways/



So is your position really "people disagree with each other" or do you have a better point to make? Don't quote my posts and say nothing. Say something of substance. Do you disagree with the respectful, passive protests? If so, state why. If you don't, then there's no need to respond to me.


Well I agree, butthurt reactions like this are sad. The best option is to just not watch the NFL, setting stuff on fire is just something a lunatic would do.

And when people do stuff like that, when they start riots or looting or set shit on fire and the excuse as to why is super flimsy...I think they just deep down wanted to smash or burn some shit and were willing to take any excuse.

Since if you have merchandise you do not want it would make more sense to try to sell it.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2018 12:10 AM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's an article about why people feel so disrespected:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/op...e174191081.html



I think it captures it quite well. It's like spitting on someone's traditions to them.
That is a perfect deconstruction of this phenomenon thumb up

Old Post Feb 6th, 2018 12:14 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's an article about why people feel so disrespected:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/op...e174191081.html



I think it captures it quite well. It's like spitting on someone's traditions to them.


"Heres something we might try at the next game. As our hearts fill with patriotic pride and our voices rise in that final crescendo about the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave lets see if were free enough and brave enough to risk seeing the things about our great country that challenge us.

That might make us uncomfortable.

That might rattle us in a different way than the jets flying overhead."


This would be good to do, but it will be hard for people. Remember how pissed off people got when Bill O' Reilly brought up to Trump some of the bad things Russia had done to us and Trump responded that this country had done some messed up shit too?


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2018 12:27 AM
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Was a good game.

Also it was all a tide ad.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2018 12:30 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's an article about why people feel so disrespected:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/op...e174191081.html



I think it captures it quite well. It's like spitting on someone's traditions to them.


Here was me thinking a lot of them just want black people to shut up and know their place.


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