__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
(The first link is dialogue from the first half of the mission; the second link is dialogue from before and after the Draahg fight.)
Above is a list of all the dialogue featured in Baras' Lair, the quest where you free the Sith Entity and the quest which you're using to wank Surik. Now, if you were to click 'expand all' on every link to see all the dialogue, you would notice through a quick CTRL+F that the "quote" you provided is... nowhere to be found. It does not exist. Unless you can provide evidence in the form of a video (I personally could not find any with your dialogue featured) or link to verify that the dialogue you posted does indeed exist, I have every reason to believe that it was one hundred percent fabricated. I really shouldn't have to fact-check every quote you post in here, so please, for the sake of this debate, cut the dishonesty.
I'd ask you the same question at this point, lol.
The Barsen didn't fight Vivicar amped by hundreds of Jedi, lol. Rewatch the fight. Before he engages the Barsen, he says that the proper rituals "can" be conducted to channel the combined power of the Masters, and that they "will" make him the most powerful Force adept to ever live, signifying that the ritual hadn't been conducted yet and that the Barsen was not fighting Vivicar amped with that kind of power.
As for the other feats, Maul's honestly replicated much better.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Jesus Christ, all you had to do was search the dialogue for the previous quest.
”We must free her, not kill her. [...] Only you have the power to break into his lair, and only I know the ritual that unlocks the spirit's bonds.“ - Vowran, in ‘Jedi Spy’.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
There isn't a dearth of legendary characters in TOR era, mind you. Yes, Master Jinn was/is among the renowned Jedi Masters but same is true for many other, and his known exploits aren't special per standards of the Jedi Knights/Masters.
Jinn humbled Anoon Bondara in a sparring contest? Why does this matter?
What odds - among those - were greater than the challenges of the Great Galactic War?
I would put Master Jinn on par with Master Orgus Din at most - and I am being generous here. See below.
FYI:
During the Sacking of Coruscant, Lord Praven killed Master Usma–one of the Jedi's most famous duelists–in an epic battle. - Lord Praven Codex Entry
Statement is not era-restricted.
How you reached this conclusion?
TOR era have its fair share of renowned swordsmen/champions such as Hero of Tython, Lord Praven, Emperor's Wrath Scourge, Emperor's Wrath II, Master Usma, Darth Malgus, Lord Skar, Nomen Karr, Darth Marr, Master Kao Cen Darach, Master Ven Zallow, Master Jun Seros, Master Jaric Kaedan, Aryn Leener and Satele Shan. Scores of other individuals are/were also renowned in similar respect.
After Sacking of Coruscant, the Jedi Order relocated its major base of operations to Tython and prioritized instruction in combat-related techniques and harsh trials for a new generation of padawans in order to prepare them for challenges of the war with the Sith Empire. You will find ample information in TOR Encyclopedia.
Even the era's chief "historian" had impressive dueling skills.
Do your homework, please.
You have no idea.
She became a member of the Jedi High Council under trying times, and was a veteran of the Great Galactic War. She is noted for her exploits in the battle of Rhen Var.
On Tatooine, she eliminated a large contingent of Imperial forces without much effort but she ran into Lord Praven - she made it out alive somehow but was found lying near the Shock Drum whose emissions would have torn Tatooine apart, if not diffused in time. She lost much of her power in coping with emissions of this superweapon unfortunately.
By the time she encountered those Sith assassins, she was a mere shadow of her former-self - she admitted as much to Hero of Tython, and informed him that she never recovered from her ordeal in Tatooine.
Concession accepted in advance for this point.
LMAO
Member of the Jedi Council and famous hero of the Great War, Master Orgus Din spent more time serving among Republic soldiers than anyone else in the Order. - Master Orgus Din (TOR Encyclopedia)
And;
Throughout their long association the Jedi Order's ablest warriors have willingly served alongside the Republic's armed forces, ensuring countless victories over tyranny and oppression. - TOR Encyclopedia
One needs to be exceptionally skilled and smart to last that long on the front-lines. Common sense.
And Darth Maul has a flawless combat record, right?
Darth Maul got cleaved into half by a padawan due to his shortsightedness, failed to tackle General Grievous on Zanbar, got tossed off a ledge by a blinded Kanan Jarrus on Malachor and his embarrassing loss to Obi-Wan Kenobi on Tatooine. Some of his additional fights had inconclusive outcomes and/or stalemates.
A lone Child of the Emperor was a difficult foe to contend with, for Barsen'thor III whose strength in the Force outshines Darth Maul's.
Injured to what degree? Any well-trained Jedi or Sith would shrug off a few injuries.
I disagree with your assertion. Both Hero of Tython and Emperor's Wrath Scourge would solo Master Jinn in a fight.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Feb 15th, 2018 at 07:43 AM
"Your power and tactics have gotten you this far, but no further"
"This battle was decided before you stepped aboard."
"What do you mean?"
"My plague isn't just a disease, it siphons power blah blah..."
He describes that his plague lets him siphon power from his victims as the direct explanation for why the battle was "decided before you stepped aboard", meaning that he'd performed that ritual before the Consular even arrived. Which makes sense since he knew she was coming for a fact. Obviously he'd prepare. And yet a half dead Consular still kicks his ass.
Act I weakened 'Thor also has incredible TK feats that could be greater than anything Mauls shown, such as casually smashing through a building-sized blast door:
(please log in to view the image)
And lifting an tossing a bus-sized chump of metal a hundred feet easily:
But the people that HoT beat prior to facing Scourge were special and renowned in ways that Jinn wasn't? Please. Laughable that you dismiss Jinn's showings and accolades as run-of-the-mill before letting your standards jump off a cliff when it comes to the TOR characters.
Why does it being a sparring contest matter? You might have a point about the contestants mutually holding back if it was some sort of inconclusive draw, but when the fight involves an explicit winner, there's no such excuse. Unless you think Bondara was holding back and inexplicably refusing to demonstrate his full set of skills as Qui-Gon went all-out?
Odds such that many Jedi during the prime of the Jedi wouldn't have stood a chance.
The first quote is the experience factor that I was talking about; irrelevant against a sixty-year old Jedi Master who's sparred with battlemasters and swordsmen who factually eclipse any swordsmen in the TOR era.
The second quote is a highly general reference to the most skilled warriors of the Order, which is something you can already safely deduce by virtue of the fact that Orgus is a named character, and not explicitly noted as a deficient warrior. We get the same sort of accolades for every Sith who participated in the Sacking of Coruscant, despite a number of them being literally blitzed by Ven Zallow. It's really not a big deal.
Qui-Gon being named directly as one of the most formidable swordsmen in the Order, and in fact humbling someone with such an accolade, is decidedly superior.
Indeed, it mentions Usma being a famed duelist, not necessarily one of the best. But let's assume he is. He's one of the best of the TOR era. So what? Qui-Gon's humbled one of the best of the PT era, when the Jedi in general are at their best.
I thought your policy was to restrict statements by era unless it explicitly referred to history? By all means, you can choose to adopt general, present-tense in-universe quotes and pretend to apply them to all of history — that would only extend the gap between PT era swordsmen and those from other eras.
Obviously every era has "renowned" swordsmen, the most general of general accolades; you don't need to cite common knowledge and then tell me to do homework. Apex-to-apex, the PT Order shits on the TOR era: the best Jedi duelists of the former, like Yoda and Mace, factually surpass any Jedi swordsmen that predates them, including all of the ones in TOR. In more general terms, it's a fact that the PT is the prime of the Jedi with respect to lightsaber fighting, which naturally indicates general superiority to the TOR Order. It's also a fact that Qui-Gon can humble characters who are skilled enough to be considered in-universe to be the most skilled duelist during the Jedi Order's said prime. The vast majority of characters on that list you've just given me can be dismissed on that merit alone.
Not sure why you're citing Sith characters either, since the discussion was leading on from an analysis of Usma's quote, which only compares him to other Jedi.
If she hadn't recovered, then that's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that her resume isn't anything special. All of what you've cited here can go in the toilet bowl after what I've given you on Jinn's part. By all means, this thing where you ignore evidence on the part of the PT characters but get starstruck by mediocre, general hype for the TOR chars is amusing, but if I wanted to be competing against a slant I'd pick up mountain climbing. At least try to have a semblance of bipartisanship when you're comparing evidence.
Rebels is Canon, not Legends as the title specifies. That aside, the fact that you're forced to vacillate between showings that aren't bad by any standard (contending with Grievous) and plot element low showings like Obi-Wan's beating of Maul in TPM/Rebels shows just how vacuous your stance is. Nowhere did I say Maul's record was flawless, but it's better than Angral's, with the only non-plot derived instance you cited (competing with Grievous and not overcoming him in whatever timeframe the comic provided) being far and away superior to Angral's loss to Tavus.
Which instance are you referring to?
Injured to a degree sufficient to hamper his performance, as he notes in the Ep1 Journal.
The comparison was between Maul and HoT Act II/Scourge, with their respective inferiors (Qui-Gon and the various opponents that HoT beats up to the end of Act II) being compared separately. We can discuss HoT and Scourge's standing in comparison to Qui-Gon later, but for now you've lost track of the discussion.
TPM Maul scales off Jinn, TCW Maul scales off Oppress.
Oppress decsively beat Plo Koon who himself out performed Fisto vs a superior version of ventress in comparably unfavorable circumstances.
Kenobi conceded to Fisto's superiority in cestus deception, and AOTC Kenobi had more than ten years to improve from TPM when he was already near Qui-Gon.
In other words, TCW Maul>>>Oppress>>Plo Koon>Fisto>AOTC Kenobi>TPM Kenobi ~ One of the best duelists of all time.
Maul scales over Jinn but then gets trashed by Kanan and 3 shot by Old Ben lmao
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Feb 14th, 2018 11:26 PM
