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Questions about Tarkin
Started by: Mendax

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Mendax
Hand of God

Registered: Sep 2017
Location:


 

Questions about Tarkin

1.) When did Tarkin become a Grand Moff? I only ask because it seemed like a pretty new promotion in ANH.

2.) What exactly is his role within the Empire? ie. What does he do? What level of power/authority does he possess?

3.) Tarkin, Vader, and Thrawn all pop-into a Star Destroyer. Who assumes command? Who do the crew listen to?


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2018 11:30 PM
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Kurk
Gone, But Never Forgotten

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind


 

1. He was pretty much made Moff of Greater Seswenna immediately after the Empire took over. The Grand Moff position wasn't made until 3 years after the creation of the Empire; when it was, he was the first.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Moff

2. Was technically still an Admiral near the beginning; basically governed for Sheev in his assigned sector. Could do whatever the f*ck he wanted otherwise. Kinda like a viceroy.

3. Vader is subservient to Tarkin as per a visual guide I can cite if needed. Vader is a head of state, but Tarkin and Thrawn are the head of government. Vader's role is ceremonial to a degree.

If Thrawn is in Tarkin's sector, he listens to Tarkin
If Tarkin is out of his sector with Thrawn's navy, he listens to Thrawn
Vader had to obey either of the two as they answered only to the Emperor, who was Vader's superior.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2018 11:46 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

So, even after these Sith-y years, Anakin still didn't get promoted to the rank of the 'master'.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2018 11:51 PM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Of course not. He's the apprentice and would remain as such until he killed Palps. With that said, Kurk is incorrect when it comes to rank. Vader's "rank" is nebulous as he exists outside the command structure. He and Tarkin are the two most powerful men in the Empire besides Palpatine himself. Vader certainly wouldn't have to take order from Thrawn unless Palpatine himself demanded it.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 12:24 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
1.) When did Tarkin become a Grand Moff? I only ask because it seemed like a pretty new promotion in ANH.

2.) What exactly is his role within the Empire? ie. What does he do? What level of power/authority does he possess?

3.) Tarkin, Vader, and Thrawn all pop-into a Star Destroyer. Who assumes command? Who do the crew listen to?
1.) His actual promotion occurred in the Tarkin novelization, which was set in 14BBY -- 5 years after the events of RotS. This also aligns with the Thrawn novelization, as Tarkin was already a seasoned(and highly respected/feared) Grand Moff when Thrawn was just a Lieutenant in the Imperial Navy... He was also a Grand Moff LONG before Pryce had any iota of political power as well.


2.) This was Tarkin's initial role/responsibility after being promoted to Grand Moff:
quote:
"We need to tighten our hold over the Outer Systems," the Emperor continued. "You will be in charge of that, Moff Tarkin. Or should I say Grand Moff Tarkin." [...] The Outer Rim is yours to oversee -- and with it, Grand Moff Tarkin, the whole of the mobile battle station project."
-Tarkin


But as I explained in the other thread: while his rank was *technically* civilian/non-Military, the Emperor allowed Tarkin the uncanny ability/power to walk into almost any setting(be it civilian OR Military) and immediately usurp control as he saw fit. We saw this when he took command of the Death Star right after its initial test was successful; no questions asked(Krennic's hissyfit notwithstanding.)

We also know that even Thrawn followed Tarkin's orders without question:
quote:
Thrawn: "It's exactly this moment I have been waiting for... To wipe [the Rebels] out!"
Tarkin: "I want you to capture their leadership."
Thrawn: "In such a battle it may not be possible to take prisoners..."
Tarkin: "Ah, but a man of your talents will manage. If we are to crush this Rebellion, we must make examples of its leaders."
Thrawn: "As you wish, Governor Tarkin..."
-Rebels S03E20

*There are a few other instances I could post, but I'm sure you get the point.


3.) The 'Rebels Visual Guide' states: "Except for Tarkin, Vader commands ALL of the Emperor's servants":
https://i.imgur.com/tMBojh7.jpg
IOW, Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

...And while I can't think of a reason why Vader would ever feel the need to waltz aboard the Chimaera and usurp control of it from Thrawn, he technically *could* do so if he wished. /shrug


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"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 25th, 2018 at 12:44 AM

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 12:33 AM
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Kurk
Gone, But Never Forgotten

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Of course not. He's the apprentice and would remain as such until he killed Palps. With that said, Kurk is incorrect when it comes to rank. Vader's "rank" is nebulous as he exists outside the command structure. He and Tarkin are the two most powerful men in the Empire besides Palpatine himself. Vader certainly wouldn't have to take order from Thrawn unless Palpatine himself demanded it.
Vader is above Thrawn, yes, but he's still Tarkin's b1tch:

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 01:14 AM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Outdated and no longer canon. Sorry.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 01:28 AM
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Kurk
Gone, But Never Forgotten

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Outdated and no longer canon. Sorry.
lol so what canon source do you have stating otherwise?


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 01:52 AM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

Vader answers to Tarkin. It's obvious in ANH, it's explicitly stated by Dave Filoni in his Rebels season 1 interview on StarWars.com, and all but reiterated in the Rebels Visual Guide Galan cited.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is in serious denial.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 01:55 AM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

The Rebels Visual Guide doesn't state Tarkin is superior to Vader, it merely states Vader can't command him. That certainly does not "reiterate" that Vader answers to Tarkin.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
lol so what canon source do you have stating otherwise?


It's straight up a non-canon source, I don't need any source to say otherwise.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 02:23 AM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

I said "all but" reiterated.

You're in denial, man.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 02:29 AM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

It doesn't even "all but" reiterate it.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 02:35 AM
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Kurk
Gone, But Never Forgotten

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
The Rebels Visual Guide doesn't state Tarkin is superior to Vader, it merely states Vader can't command him. That certainly does not "reiterate" that Vader answers to Tarkin.



It's straight up a non-canon source, I don't need any source to say otherwise.
So your argument is because it wasn't said in canon it can't be. M'kay.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 02:42 AM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
So your argument is because it wasn't said in canon it can't be. M'kay.


Except that's not at all what I said. Quit trying to strawman. I said your source is outdated and non-canon, which is true.

With that said, it's also obviously wrong as anyone who saw the prequels can easily see. Vader didn't climb through the ranks by riding Tarkin's coattails, rather he is Palpatine's right-hand man not Tarkin's.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 02:47 AM
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Kurk
Gone, But Never Forgotten

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Except that's not at all what I said. Quit trying to strawman. I said your source is outdated and non-canon, which is true.

With that said, it's also obviously wrong as anyone who saw the prequels can easily see. Vader didn't climb through the ranks by riding Tarkin's coattails, rather he is Palpatine's right-hand man not Tarkin's.
Your response in itself is a strawman as is mine to yours. The question is whether Vader is subservient to Tarkin.

I presented my source from Star Wars: The Complete Visual Dictionary which was republished and released under the Disney brand in 2016.

Even omitting the secondary sources, it's obvious by A New Hope that Vader is subservient to Tarkin:

(please log in to view the image)


and

Tarkin: "Enough of this! Vader, release him!"
Vader: "As you wish."

Given that Vader in canon has ruthlessly killed plenty of military officers over trivial matters, it would seem unlikely that he would release Motti from his death, after the latter directly showed contempt for Vader and made a fool of him in front of high-command, other than because Tarkin ordered him to do so.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 03:28 AM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
Your response in itself is a strawman as is mine to yours.


It's not a strawman. You presented a source and I pointed out that your source is flawed. And the flaw wasn't some line unrelated to the argument but rather the very sentence you were using for your argument.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 03:53 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source


Couple that with the Rebels Visual Guide excerpt that I posted above, and the Imperial pecking order is pretty clear, imo. Tarkin > Vader.


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 25th, 2018 at 04:14 AM

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 04:09 AM
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One Big Mob
I know somethin'

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Not in bait threads


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
3.) The 'Rebels Visual Guide' states: "Except for Tarkin, Vader commands ALL of the Emperor's servants":
https://i.imgur.com/tMBojh7.jpg
IOW, Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

...And while I can't think of a reason why Vader would ever feel the need to waltz aboard the Chimaera and usurp control of it from Thrawn, he technically *could* do so if he wished. /shrug
Wait, was Sheev still keeping that a secret? I guess I never thought about it before.

When did he reveal himself (if ever)?


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 04:22 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

The fact that Palpatine was a Sith Master? Yeah, it was still a huge secret when the Empire was formed -- one that Palpatine only revealed to those in his closest inner circle(namely Vader, Mas Amedda, and Sly Moore.)

Palpatine's true identity was such a secret, in fact, that not even Tarkin(who, again, was basically the second most powerful being in the entire Empire) was privy to said information... He [Tarkin] was left with his own personal speculations that suggested such:
quote:
"...Tarkin had his private thoughts about the Emperor, as well. That he and Vader were kindred spirits suggested that both of them might be Sith. Tarkin often wondered if that wasn't the actual reason Palpatine had been targeted for arrest or assassination by the Jedi. It wasn't so much that the Order wished to take charge of the Republic; it was that the Jedi couldn't abide the idea of a member of the ancient Order they opposed and abhorred emerging as the hero of the Clone Wars and assuming the mantle of Emperor."

-Tarkin


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 25th, 2018 at 01:20 PM

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 01:13 PM
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relentless1
Dark Overlord of KMC

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: Your Moms house


 

1. i always assumed he was made grand moff way earlier than Star Wars

2. his role as grand moff is a level below Vader in the usual hierarchy;

3. Tarkin, Vader and Thrawn on a ship is Vader then Tarkin then Thrawn; Vader is the Emperors apprentice hes the Supreme Commander of the Army so hes for sure number now, i think the only reason Tarkin seemed to pull rank on Vader other than Lucas' short sightedness on how good Vader would be is that Tarkin was in supreme command of the Death Star itself

"During the Battle of Yavin, Lord Vader was apparently only Palpatine's observer aboard the Death Star, with operational control in the hands of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin, even though Vader technically outranked him"
- wookiepedia

"Though Tarkin had a good working relationship with Darth Vader, whom he found efficient and considered an ally in the Imperial hierarchy, he was also unsettled by Vader's supernatural powers and mysterious nature, and disliked when Palpatine used Vader as a check on Tarkin himself."

- wookiepedia

Despite Vader's lofty position, Tarkin was among few Imperial officials willing to interrupt, stand up to, and direct Vader, behavior Vader tolerated.

- wookiepedia

Last edited by relentless1 on Feb 25th, 2018 at 01:55 PM

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 01:41 PM
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