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Questions about Tarkin
Started by: Mendax

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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Of course not. He's the apprentice and would remain as such until he killed Palps. With that said, Kurk is incorrect when it comes to rank. Vader's "rank" is nebulous as he exists outside the command structure. He and Tarkin are the two most powerful men in the Empire besides Palpatine himself. Vader certainly wouldn't have to take order from Thrawn unless Palpatine himself demanded it.


IRONIC.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 05:45 PM
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Kurk
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If Vader ordered Thrawn to do something that goes against Palpatine's orders, am I correct in assuming that Thrawn wouldn't obey being that he's one of the few people who directly answered to the Emperor?


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 05:49 PM
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Galan007
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The only people in the Empire whom Thrawn consistently answers to/takes orders from are Palpatine himself, and Tarkin. Technically Vader 'outranks' Thrawn as well, but Vader was more of a behind-the-scenes persona during the Rebels-era, whose tasks/missions were very specific(ie. hunting/killing Jedi that survived Order 66.) So imo, the instances where Vader would ever be permitted to usurp command from Thrawn, and/or give him orders would be extremely rare to say the least. /shrug

That said, if Thrawn were given an order from Vader that directly conflicted with a preexisting order from Palpatine, Thrawn would undoubtedly follow Palpatine's order(unless that order was to kill the Chiss Ascendancy or somesuch.) Vader's intimidation tactics certainly would not be able to sway Thrawn into committing an act of insubordination, and more appropriately, high-treason.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 09:01 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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I hate Palpatine. He does nothing for his empire. He sits like the old man he is.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 09:42 PM
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Kurk
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Needless to say, the margin of rank-difference between Vader, Thrawn, and Tarkin is small enough to where mutual respect and situational factors determine who takes orders from who; it's more likely that they'll come to an agreement before resorting to the technical hierarchy.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2018 11:07 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
Needless to say, the margin of rank-difference between Vader, Thrawn, and Tarkin is small enough to where mutual respect and situational factors determine who takes orders from who; it's more likely that they'll come to an agreement before resorting to the technical hierarchy.
Relatively small, I suppose, but still well-defined enough for us to know: Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

But yes, they all definitely share a great deal of mutual respect for one another -- orders between them are only divvied out on a very select basis. That said, when Tarkin speaks/orders, they listen/abide.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 01:28 AM
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relentless1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Relatively small, I suppose, but still well-defined enough for us to know: Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

But yes, they all definitely share a great deal of mutual respect for one another -- orders between them are only divvied out on a very select basis. That said, when Tarkin speaks/orders, they listen/abide.



nah, Vader outranks Tarkin

Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 08:13 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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For such a big baddie. Vader is commanded a lot. Lmao


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 11:07 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
nah, Vader outranks Tarkin
based on?


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 11:38 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
nah, Vader outranks Tarkin
No, he does not. Vader outranks/commands everyone except Tarkin.

Explicitly stated in the Rebels Visual Guide. Explicitly stated by Filoni himself.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 04:16 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Fellony*


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 04:47 PM
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Mendax
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Question- people keep saying that Tarkin was one of the empire's most powerful characters in both civilian and military affairs. but in my research I found that his title as grand moff was a civilian one, and the only military application he was ever in control of was the death star, and that was only because it was being manufactured in his territory in the outer rim.

so he was more of a civilian political officiant than a military one, no?


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 09:07 PM
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Kurk
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Ever heard of Governor Pryce? Holds a civilian title, yet commands the imperial forces....


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 09:11 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
Question- people keep saying that Tarkin was one of the empire's most powerful characters in both civilian and military affairs. but in my research I found that his title as grand moff was a civilian one, and the only military application he was ever in control of was the death star, and that was only because it was being manufactured in his territory in the outer rim.

so he was more of a civilian political officiant than a military one, no?
As I have explained a few times now: while his rank was *technically* civilian/non-Military, the Emperor allowed Tarkin the uncanny ability/power to walk into pretty much any setting(be it civilian OR Military) and immediately usurp control as he saw fit. Barring Sheev himself, Tarkin was *the* most powerful man in the Empire.

As mentioned, we already know that even Grand Admiral Thrawn was obligated to follow Tarkin's orders, but another instance of him influencing both civilian AND military matters occurred in the Thrawn novelization:

After some bribing from Pryce, Tarkin promoted her from civilian status to the system Governor of Lothal. Typically Governorships were appointed through the Imperial Palace's bureaucrats, but Tarkin bypassed them entirely and granted her the rank/title on a whim. This showcases his massive political/civilian power.

Soon thereafter, Tarkin had the Imperial Navy's high-council promote Thrawn from Commander to Commodore, and give him his own Star Destroyer to command(the Chimaera.) He also had them promote Eli Vanto from Ensign to Lieutenant-Commander. This showcases his massive military power as well.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 09:27 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
As I have explained a few times now: while his rank was *technically* civilian/non-Military, the Emperor allowed Tarkin the uncanny ability/power to walk into pretty much any setting(be it civilian OR Military) and immediately usurp control as he saw fit. Barring Sheev himself, Tarkin was *the* most powerful man in the Empire.

As mentioned, we already know that even Grand Admiral Thrawn was obligated to follow Tarkin's orders, but another instance of him influencing both civilian AND military matters occurred in the Thrawn novelization:

After some bribing from Pryce, Tarkin promoted her from civilian status to the system Governor of Lothal. Typically Governorships were appointed through the Imperial Palace's bureaucrats, but Tarkin bypassed them entirely and granted her the rank/title on a whim. This showcases his massive political/civilian power.

Soon thereafter, Tarkin had the Imperial Navy's high-council promote Thrawn from Commander to Commodore, and give him his own Star Destroyer to command(the Chimaera.) He also had them promote Eli Vanto from Ensign to Lieutenant-Commander. This showcases his massive military power as well.
On a side note, why does Thrawn outrank Pryce (or at least have the power to control her system)? She held the position of governor for all those years while Thrawn was just a commander like you said. Thrawn was just recently promoted to Grand Admiral as of season 3, so is there something else I'm missing?


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 09:46 PM
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relentless1
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ive posted evidence in an earlier post on this thread detailing the relationship between Tarkin and Vader; it boils down to Vader being outside of the normal hierarchy therefore not having to answer to anyone outside of Sidious; he acquiesces to Tarkin on the Death Star because he was there as an observer and enforcer via Palpatines direct order

Old Post Feb 27th, 2018 10:29 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
On a side note, why does Thrawn outrank Pryce (or at least have the power to control her system)? She held the position of governor for all those years while Thrawn was just a commander like you said. Thrawn was just recently promoted to Grand Admiral as of season 3, so is there something else I'm missing?
The Governorship allows Pryce a certain degree of military control... especially on Lothal. That said, she is still technically a civilian, so Thrawn ultimately holds more power than her where Imperial/military matters are concerned. That's why he was able to reprimand her so severely after she destroyed the fuel stores -- even though the 'incident' occurred on Lothal, it directly affected the TIE-Defender project, which falls under Thrawn's jurisdiction.

Moreover, Pryce is officially credited as Thrawn's "subordinate", per starwars.com:
quote:
Thrawn and Pryce.

Until now, Governor Arihnda Pryce has been a loyal subordinate and trusted ally of Thrawn's, but her recklessness has cost him dearly and there's no covering up what she's done. Her decision to blow up a fuel pod in an attempt to take out the rebels has sidelined -- and possibly permanently halted -- Thrawn's TIE defender program. There's no doubt she will be dealt with harshly once Thrawn returns to Lothal. What will she do to save herself?


There was a time when Thrawn treated her as a peer out of political courtesy or w/e, but Pryce has WELL solidified just how damn inept she is as a strategist, tactician, and overall leader... So I don't think we'll be seeing Thrawn extend her any further undo respect.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 01:29 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
ive posted evidence in an earlier post on this thread detailing the relationship between Tarkin and Vader; it boils down to Vader being outside of the normal hierarchy therefore not having to answer to anyone outside of Sidious; he acquiesces to Tarkin on the Death Star because he was there as an observer and enforcer via Palpatines direct order
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"Except for Tarkin..."


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Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 01:39 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
ive posted evidence in an earlier post on this thread detailing the relationship between Tarkin and Vader; it boils down to Vader being outside of the normal hierarchy therefore not having to answer to anyone outside of Sidious; he acquiesces to Tarkin on the Death Star because he was there as an observer and enforcer via Palpatines direct order
Great point.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 02:01 AM
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relentless1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
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"Except for Tarkin..."


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Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source


He may not be able to order Tarkin around but Tarkin certainly cannot order Vader around either; when he got Vader to stop choking out Motti it was a courtesy really

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 04:50 AM
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