Hm, I think this is probably one of the best match-ups I've seen in a while on here. Props on that.
Personally, I feel as though Terra and Katara would have a really good fight, but I don't think Katara would be able to pull a win on Terra. The scope of Terra's powers are comparable, if not superior to, those we've seen from Toph. Also, with morals on, Terra wouldn't have much trouble just killing Katara outright.
Of course, this leaves Aang vs Raven. I think Raven would prove able to counter anything Aang does, being capable of shooting projectiles stronger than we've seen Aang do out of Avatar mode, as well as adding flight, teleportation, intangibility, etc. Once Aang goes Avatar state, he'd totally overwhelm her in terms of raw power.
However, even in Avatar state, Raven could counter Aang with her White Raven form. As White Raven, she was able to overpower Trigon himself with her magic, as well as reverse the damage he had done on a planetary scale.
While Aang is certainly impressive, especially in Avatar state, he's simply not on the level of White Raven.
Giving this to Raven and Terra, fairly handily.
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
I watched the Raven vs Terra fight and they're way less skilled and have far inferior reaction times than Aang and Katara. Aang vs Ozai makes them look like a pair of girlscouts. Katara had the upper hand against Azula in S2 as well, she can take these guys.
When you factor in the Avatar State which can move islands, create tsunami's and erupt volcano's Aang can solo tbh. Even Korra's shitty Avatar State could block the spirit laser:
You seriously think either of these guys could survive that explosion? In the fight with Ozai Aang turns a small ball of rock into a machinegun that was obliterating entire swaths of those 50-100 meter tall pillars and at the end of the series he casually raised the ****ing ocean.
AS Aang solo's with ease.
Early Avatar Aang isn't representative of his end of series abilities. Besides, Raven's been taken down by even less. Freaking Robin owned her.
Like she did to Terra?
Last edited by Nephthys on Feb 27th, 2018 at 05:28 PM
Lol, by the end of the series Aang and Katara would wreck the other team. The only chance would be the level of power Terra showed when Slade was controlling her, but I think he was also amping her powers.
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Interesting justifications for team 1 guys. Perhaps you can sway the opinion of Mythlord and the other Comic Viners who are pretty set on Raven soloing (even after clarifying that this is animated Raven only)
I can't speak for myself as I don't remember much from the Avatar series aside from foggy childhood memories—speaking of which, a re-watch marathon sounds like a good way to spend spring break .
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Yeah I looked at the comicvine thread and almost every post was about comics Raven soloing.
Theres a case to be made about Avatar characters being lightning-timers given that a lot of them have reacted to and blocked lightning. Katara for instance bent a large water shield after Azula fired lightning at her. You could call cartoon physics on that but Iroh at least did redirect real lightning. Aang was also able to block Combustion Mans explosions after they'd started, his speed and skill in that fight in particular is insane imo. Benders also have a degree of super strength, though I don't recall Aang or Katara ever doing much in that regard.
Last edited by Nephthys on Feb 28th, 2018 at 12:30 AM
You're assuming that Raven and Terra are unskilled because of a fight the two had which was largely physical, despite the fact that neither are brawlers, like say Robin? Robin can beat Raven in a one on one fight, if she's not using her powers on him. Otherwise she'd pop his head like a zit, with a single spell.
1. The island feat is impressive, but Terra and Raven have a feat of similar scale. They lifted the entire titan tower, and the island it was on, when it was sinking- thus allowing Robin and Slade to continue fighting.
2. With force fields, Raven has blocked far worse than that explosion. She was able to protect herself from blasts from Trigon, that were able to destroy all life on Earth. While they overwhelmed her after time, she hold them off for a while.
3. Uh, Terra has literally caused a volcano to explode, which was capable of destroying a city.
4. Aang did not raise the ocean, lol. He rose the local sea level on a small portion of land to extinguish some flames. That's not even on the scale of impressiveness that you're trying to attribute it to.
5. Feats from Korra don't translate to Aang.
6. Clearly you're tripping, because Katara was literally ragdolled by Tai-Lee, and Robin would curbstomp her. Robin in the series has done things like casually dodged lightning, blocked machine gunfire with his staff, knock out bricks like Cinderblock and Cyborg, taken hits from characters that can collapse buildings with a single strike(Cinderblock), etc. Robin is the leader of the team for a reason, lol. Robin would easily put down Aang and Katara by himself, if he needed to.
7. Raven didn't mind-rape a lot in the series, because most of the enemies the team faced either had no minds to use, or the team deemed it unethical. When she does, though? She was able to reduce character like Slade(Herald of Trigon) into sniveling children. Regardless, I'm not saying she absolutely will here, I'm just saying she could.
8. You still haven't provided Aang and Katara with an answer to Raven's teleportation, intangibility, or soul/mind manipulation.
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
It was only physical in literally the first exchange when Terra very slowly jumped on Raven. And Robin as Red X solo'd the whole team while dodging Raven's slowass spells. And I'm not assuming they're unskilled, I can tell they are by their clumsy, easily telegraphed attacks and slow reflexes. Compared to the extremely fast and agile movements of benders they're total amateurs.
1. The island Kyoshi moved was far larger than the tower. It had entire mountain ranges on it:
She also wasn't struggling to do it very much and it was moving incredibly quickly.
2. White Raven doesn't count. Her standard barrier isn't nearly that strong and can just be avoided by Aang and Katara's attacks pretty easily. Terra was able to just go around it for instance and Jinx could just push her back with her blasts.
3. Terra didn't actually mean to do that, he power just triggered it by accident, whereas in the avatars case huge streams of magma shoot right out of the top. Plus, I heard Slade was amping her somehow at that point. At any rate we see the avatar causing 3 volcano's to erupt simultaneously, so that feat is again miles better.
4. I never said he raised the entire thing, my statement is still accurate. But that's not the point, the amount he raised is absolutely gargantuan. You can even see the fire nation ships/blimps in the shot for scale. If he used a similar scale attack against these two they'd be absolutely toast.
5. Aang's AS is stronger than Korra's since Korra lost her previous incarnations and he's far more spiritual and well realised as an Avatar than she was.
6. Robin would be a decent fight for Jet maybe, but lol @ him fighting Aang. Ty-Lee took out Katara when she'd never fought a chi blocker before, by attacking her from behind. But Ty Lee's a monster at any rate. The first fight in that video, where she takes down dozens of earthbenders solo is possibly the best non-bender feat in the series. And Robin dodging some electrical attacks isn't the same as dodging lightning, unlike Avatar characters who get scaling from Iroh who actually intercepted a real lightning bolt.
7. They only other instance I can think of that you might be talking about is Dr Light, where she went berserk and had to pull him into her body first. I don't know what she did to Slade so if you could point to the episode I'll look into it. Morals and character are on so she wouldn't do that at any rate.
8. Raven's use of those abilities in combat is inconsistent and often clumsy. She can't spam teleportation and as I recall its more of her slowly using portals anyway. Nor does she use intangibility to dodge attacks or keep it up while fighting. It won't be an issue for these characters any more than it was for the far inferior fighters like Jinx and shit in the series. They can adapt to the abilities quickly and use their superior skill to overwhelm her. Amy attempt at soul manipulation would fail due to Aang's own soul manipulation abilities and Raava backing him up.
Last edited by Nephthys on Feb 28th, 2018 at 01:15 PM
Lol at Raven having slow reflexes. I will agree that in h2h combat, Raven and Terra are certainly lacking. They won't be using h2h combat in this fight though.
1. Kiyoshi Island was tiny. It only fit one village and was surrounded by volcanoes, in case you've forgotten, lol. Also, Titans Tower is made out of far heavier materials than rock. It's a full on skyscraper made out of steel and even heavier metals. Not to mention that it does have its own local island.
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While I would agree that Kiyoshi island was far larger, this feat was also accomplished very early on by Terra who had just learned to control her powers. Hence the reason for Raven being able to lift the entire island casually, with a single hand. I can't find any scenes unfortunately, but I re-watched the episode. It's called, "Titans rising", I believe.
Basically Raven can lift the entire island with the massive metallic tower on it, with a single hand, with ease.
2. I know- white Raven would dimension dump Aang and Katara in Hell, warp them into outer space, erase them from existence, etc. This would be a non-fight.
I'm referring to when Raven was first being assaulted by Trigon on her birthday, and managed to stave off his assaults with her force fields.
After all, the feats you're referring to are generally associated with Raven not taking a fight seriously. In a fight to the death like this, she will use her abilities to their full extent, which makes her capable of resisting even Trigon for a time, who is referred to as a universal power. PIS and CIS aside, Raven's abilities are essentially whatever they need to be, in the series. When she needs to, she can resist attacks from Trigon that caused the apocalypse and ended all life on Earth. This isn't even White Raven- White Raven stomped Trigon with ease and reversed all the damage he did, bringing all life back to Earth(i.e. Quintillions, possibly more, of lifeforms, including billions of humans).
3. Uh, so Terra did that on accident as collateral damage from using her powers. That's even more impressive, dude. Lmao. She also collapsed an entire mountain on top of herself, and has caused literal earthquakes just by getting angry.
Also, Slade didn't "amp" her, he just trained her to control her powers more. Same thing he did with Robin, basically. She was his apprentice.
4. Uh, lmfao, the scale of Aang raising the see level on a small swath of land is not even that impressive. Especially considering that he had to go Avatar state to do it.
It was literally maybe the size of a town, lol. If Aang used that against Raven and Terra? They'd float upwards, lmao.
5. Regardless, Korra's feats don't scale to Aang. That's like saying Kid Goku from DB could one-shot EOS Naruto because Goku early DBZ can planet bust.
Korra is a completely different series, and since it's the sequel to AtLAB, we can scale from Aang to Korra, not the other way around.
6. Uh, bullshit Name a single feat that Jet has that could put him against Robin. Robin, as I said, has solo'd his entire team, tanked hits from Cyborg, Cinderblock, as well as Beastboy, Starfire, etc. EOS Robin is on par with Slade, who has literally put down Beastboy as a T-rex before.
Robin is used to fighting people with the kinds of powers that Aang and Katara have. Not to mention that he takes out entire squadrons of hundreds of armed soldiers on the regular, without much difficulty. Tai Lee is not impressive compared to Robin.
7. It was during the birthday episode- when she overpowered Slade's assault on her mind when he was a herald of Trigon. She has also resisted Trigon himself, like I mentioned earlier. Aang and Katara would have been turned into heralds by Trigon, lol.
Do Aang or Katara have any feats of mind manipulation/telepathy or resistance to it?
8. I already addressed the CIS/PIS thing. It wouldn't be useful to the plot if Raven was operating at 100% at all times, and just one-shots anyone the team fights.
Since when does Aang have soul manipulation? Bending stealing =/= Soul manipulation. He is in tune with the spirit realm, which you could use as an argument, but what feats does he have of resisting soul stealing/manipulation from a being on Raven's level? Barring PIS/CIS, Raven could just steal both his and Katara's souls or dimension dump them into the demon realm.
What defense could Aang have against that, let alone Katara?
Also, I think it's stupid that White Raven isn't allowed here, but AS is. Raven can go White Raven almost on command by the end of the series. In the future, it was shown to be her standard form. It has to do with her emotions- once she gains control over them, she can go White Raven. It's not as if Aang can go AS all willy nilly either, until the very end of the series.
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
Raven is an incredibly inconsistent character, and I'm not just talking about the level of power she demonstrated when taking down Trigon as white Raven (that Raven would solo the entire Avatar series with a single attack).
Even base Raven has demonstrated the ability to stop time. This is a power that Aang and Katara would have zero defense against, and would enable her and Terra to effortlessly defeat the team.
She's also teamed up with Terra, who with her powers caused a dormant volcano to erupt with enough force that it would have destroyed the city.
Here's the thing though: Katara is dead weight in this fight. She's laughably outclassed in power by Terra or Raven. She doesn't have a feat that even compares to Terra and Raven lifting Titan Tower and pushing it back in place.
The only character in the entire show who has feats comparable or better is Aang in the Avatar state. And Terra's volcano feat is better than this.
So Katara would be taken out very quickly, and no she probably isn't faster, given that Beast Boy also has feats of dodging lightning (as does Robin, but Robin is likely the fastest Titan in combat).
I'd probably give it to team 2. Aang can definitely compete and in the Avatar State probably has more raw power than either individually (on average, since as stated Raven's best feats are above Aang's entire setting combined), but his teammate is sadly useless in a fight with people of this weight class.
Also, does anyone remember if Raven has ever used her telekinesis directly on people to immobilize them?