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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Sheev's Galactic Empire vs Krayts Empire


Sheev's Galactic Empire vs Krayts Empire
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JMANGO
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Sheev's Galactic Empire vs Krayts Empire

Excluding the two darksiders themselves

Krayt's empire during Legacy War

Palpatine's empire during ROTJ

Who wins?

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:24 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Sheev wins. No contest. When it comes about military power: Sheev's the biggest.


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:25 PM
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Azronger
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Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

Stalemate according to that one quote


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:29 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Nah. No stalemate.


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:31 PM
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JMANGO
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To note, while sheev may not be doing any actually fighting, his dark side influence affecting the morale of his army comprised of strormtoopers numbering in the tens of trillions(?) is still very much present.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:31 PM
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Azronger
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So Sheev still retains his mental domination? Unsure then. The quote was quite vague whether it included Force users or no


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:32 PM
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ILS
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Krayt's Empire reached Sidious' peak "within a few short years" after deposing Roan. Considering seven years pass between that time and the series in it's present time, I can only assume Krayt's empire continually got stronger.

Then by Legacy War, add in Sith Troopers who pilot starships capable of tearing through capital ships? And the superior technology overall?


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:37 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Umm, when did Sheev BM'd his army?


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 06:38 PM
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Selenial
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
Then by Legacy War, add in Sith Troopers who pilot starships capable of tearing through capital ships? And the superior technology overall?


thumb up

This is a pretty important factor. Though the inclusion of Sith Troopers is suspect, since Krayt is not included in this and they cannot exist without him.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 07:10 PM
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ILS
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Nor can Sidious' empire function without him. smile


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“The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 07:13 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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When did Palps BM'd his men? Wasn't that just a myth to justify the defeat of the Empire forces?


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 07:15 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
When did Palps BM'd his men? Wasn't that just a myth to justify the defeat of the Empire forces?
In Heir to the Empire it was confirmed that Sheev was using Battle Meditation to sustain his troops during the Battle of Endor:

quote:
Thrawn smiled back. "It is indeed. Tell me, Master C'baoth: are you familiar with the Imperial Fleet's disastrous defeat at the Battle of Endor five years ago?"

"I've heard rumors. One of the offworlders who came here spoke about it." C'baoth's gaze drifted to the window, to the palace/crypt visible across the square. "Though only briefly."
Pellaeon swallowed. Thrawn himself didn't seem to notice the implication. "Then you must have wondered how a few dozen Rebel ships could possibly rout an Imperial force that outgunned it by at least ten to one."

"I didn't spend much time with such wonderings," C'baoth said dryly. "I assumed that the Rebels were simply better warriors."

"In a sense, that's true," Thrawn agreed. "The Rebels did indeed fight better, but not because of any special abilities or training. They fought better than the Fleet because the Emperor was dead."

He turned to look at Pellaeon. "You were there, Captain-you must have noticed it. The sudden loss of coordination between crew members and ships; the loss of efficiency and discipline. The loss, in short, of that elusive quality we call fighting spirit."
"There was some confusion, yes," Pellaeon said stiffly. He was starting to see where Thrawn was going with this, and he didn't like it a bit. "But nothing that can't be explained by the normal stresses of battle."

One blue-black eyebrow went up, just slightly. "Really? The loss of the Executor-the sudden, last-minute TIE fighter incompetence that brought about the destruction of the Death Star itself-the loss of six other Star Destroyers in engagements that none of them should have had trouble with? All of that nothing but normal battle stress?"
"The Emperor was not directing the battle," Pellaeon snapped with a fire that startled him. "Not in any way. I was there, Admiral-I know."

"Yes, Captain, you were there," Thrawn said, his voice abruptly hard. "And it's time you gave up your blindfold and faced the truth, no matter how bitter you find it. You had no real fighting spirit of your own anymore-none of you in the Imperial Fleet did. It was the Emperor's will that drove you; the Emperor's mind that provided you with strength and resolve and efficiency. You were as dependent on that presence as if you were all borg-implanted into a combat computer."


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"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 28th, 2018 at 07:28 PM

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 07:26 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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How did Thrawn 'know' that? Was he there too?


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 07:38 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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And the use of battle meditation at Endor wasn't later attributed to Grand Admiral Nial Declann instead of Palpatine?


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 07:41 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
How did Thrawn 'know' that? Was he there too?
Because he's Thrawn. stick out tongue

But for what it's worth, once Pellaeon saw C'baoth's Battle Meditation firsthand, he, too, agreed that Palpatine was using the same ability to bolster Imperial forces at Endor. /shrug

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
And the use of battle meditation at Endor wasn't later attributed to Grand Admiral Nial Declann instead of Palpatine?
Possibly, but Declann's entry in Insider #66 is quite vague in that regard:
https://i.imgur.com/YhPgCWz.jpg


__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 08:03 PM
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The Ellimist
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I could see Krayt's Empire winning through its 100+ year tech advantage on top of quotes suggesting a comparable level of relative power. Palpatine's best shots are Force storms + superweapons, many of the latter of which are still under development.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2018 10:13 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Then there is no proof for that. Thrawn being Thrawn means nothing.


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Mar 1st, 2018 12:30 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

Well Thrawn, Pellaeon, and C'baoth all deduced the same thing, so I'd say Zahn's intent in the novel was pretty clear... and so far as I can tell, there's no explicit evidence to the contrary. /shrug


__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Old Post Mar 1st, 2018 03:35 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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That's no deduction. That's assumption. Thrawn basically looked for am excuse to justify their defeat. But whatever...


__________________
Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Mar 1st, 2018 07:04 PM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
That's no deduction. That's assumption. Thrawn basically looked for am excuse to justify their defeat. But whatever...
That wasn't the case at all. Thrawn knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Palpatine was using Battle Meditation to bolster/amp Imperial forces at the battle of Endor. In fact, that is the exact reason WHY Thrawn sought out Joruus C'baoth in the first place.

Remember, Thrawn was trying to reestablish the Empire, but the huge majority of his forces at the time were composed of unseasoned rookies. However, when they were under the influence of Joruus' Battle Meditation, their overall effectiveness increased by a factor of no less than 30-40%... And because Thrawn's resources were in such short supply back then, he essentially *needed* this advantage(which only Joruus could provide, mind you) to gain a definitive upperhand against the New Republic.

IOW, it was *only* because of his knowledge of Palpatine's Battle Meditation feat at Endor, that Thrawn had the wherewithal to find another force-user who could preform the same function for him.


__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 1st, 2018 at 07:25 PM

Old Post Mar 1st, 2018 07:16 PM
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