Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
you....didn't read what i wrote through this discussion, did you? i said she COULD fool him. however, his misdirects tend to allow the opponent to see themselves winning. if she believes she won, she'd drop her power and he'd kill her. if she showed him the same thing, maybe they both drop powers but he still has his ranged weapons and he would kill her. at one time he has bullets that don't miss...
really abhi? both you and prep (solid company you're keeping ) have TOLD me repeatedly she can see through realities, and....neither of you have shown a damn thing. but i'm just supposed to go ahead and believe she can do what only jamie f'n braddock has ever done?? lol yeah....
you also claimed betsy broke a misdirect. still waiting to see that too.
btw--wth are u talking about with a promethean giant? SHIP is tech--high level artificial intelligence--a computer. the giants were living beings. they aren't even close in regards to the type of beings they are and how they would perceive things.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
lol using it once doesn't=standard.... he's used it on extremely rare occasions given the number of his appearances. in a tourney, if i were using fantomex, i wouldn't expect to have that as gear. as a host i wouldn't allow it either. he also doesn't need it here to win this.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
no, it's not always on his person. at points he's had it, at other times he's had it hidden at more often than not it's simply forgotten about by writers. which is too bad, because the best fantomex arcs have been the ones where the world played a role imo. he really is a great character. so much that could still be explored. the splitting of his minds was really dumb but writers could use the world and the weapon x history to really build on. he's def one of my fave "new" characters marvel has put out in the last bunch of years. morrison, go figure.
AoA Wolverine-ocalypse broke a misdirect too. AoA Iceman avoided it by hiding his consciousness. It doesn't take a high level reality warper to counter it, but rather a specific powerset it seems. We can't say for certain if Sensor Girl could do it, but I'm not opposed to the idea entirely. https://postimg.org/image/ygwovjpv9/ https://postimg.org/image/w8dx0glnp/
Fantomex didn't break Deathlok's misdirect. Deathlok left a taunting message within the illusion, Fantomex saw it and the scenario ended. It's the same as when Archangel stabbed Fantomex in a misdirection but realized his wings were just stabbing the ground. Going out of bounds, so to speak, ends the thing.
Psylocke didn't break a misdirection. She ripped off Fantomex's TP blocker with TK, then got inside his head before KOing him after their fight. https://postimg.org/image/b6iizk86t/
Prep man mentioned some kind of super speed and shields from Sensor Girl's ring? How fast and durable is she with that?
I'm betting she can, since she can "remove the illusions of distance and size". Fantomex will try and fool sensor girl, but that "specific power set" of hers can: "She was also granted the power to see through the illusions of the world, be they illusions of size, or distance, or time, or even death."
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i was aware of the apoc scene but he was in it for a lengthy period of time before he realized it was a lie. he believed he'd killed all of them before understanding what was going on. and even when he hit fantomex, he STILL saw the misdriect--he just knew that what was happening wasn't real. it didn't actually "break" until he struck fantomex and he ended it. misdirect never lasts very long. but breaking it? seeing "through it"? no one, not even that apoc, was able tot do that--and that apoc was uber... it wouldn't have to last long here either here. in that same arc (??) he misdirected one of the horseman's emotions into thinking it was "in love" and it killed itself. lol
and it failed against bobby because he didn't have a consciousness. again, not really relevant here and makes sense that without a consciousness something can't be misdirected. though i did completely forget about that scene.
based on who and how a misdirect has failed, i still see no reason whatsoever, especially based on the support, to think she can see through a misdriect. /shrug
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
about the shrink ray--i recall that scene now you posted it, but it's odd. the shrink ray gun doom created DID work on organics. so i wonder if he actually stole it from doom, or if that was another lie of his? if he did, it was clearly a different gun, or...he was lying to pool?
such a strange character. i still can't for the life of me figure out who the old woman in his house was. he introduced her to jean and charles, but i'd always believed her to be a construct of his--his house too was implied to be...not entirely real at one point. but we saw him talking to the old woman in a one-to-one scenario a couple times too. so strange.... though seems the recent developments with the character continue to disappoint. /shrug
Yeah, it's possible. I'm thinking it's a quickdraw from what I've seen though.
Certainly. I'm by no means arguing Sensor Girl can do it. I'm just not onboard with the idea that Goat Monk level power is required.
He could be lying of course, but he's never shrank a person down to my knowledge.
Yeah, Fantomex could be discussed in his own thread tbh. He is intended to be a hall of mirrors, as Psylocke pointed out, so a nuanced discussion of him would include things that make vs matches difficult to handle. For example, we choose to privilege Remender's interpretation of misdirection because Uncanny X-Force was incredible, but misdirection is hardly consistent. It's also been presented as a form of hypnosis or just general illusion casting. This could explain why it's usually ineffective once people are engaged in combat with him, ala Karnak. The majority of his appearances, he just kinda fights like a gun-toting martial artist with a vague ability to lie really effectively. He often appears closer to TAO than anything else.
Not arguing for Sensor Girl, but we do need to acknowledge it's not cut and dry, taking all appearances into account.
Last edited by StyleTime on Mar 9th, 2018 at 01:55 AM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
geezus prep. stop with irrelevant scans. yes she can fool him. that has NEVER been the issue. fact is you still haven't shown anything that leads me to believe she can see through his power.
maybe, though i don't think the winner of the quick draw really matters. the type of 'illusion' is what matters. like i said, if she thinks she's won, seems logical she'd dispel her own illusion at which point she would die. she seems far less likely to create that type of scenario than he does imo. plus his ranged weapons are a huge edge here if both illusions are foregone.
to understand what is happening? maybe not, though the only time it happen is after a logical contradiction gives it away. to actually "break" the power? even fantomex said no one has ever done what braddock did. it's def ill-defined in nature, but imo it is a type of reality altering. it doesn't last long, and has been called several different things, but i think the initial intent was this. and the reason we favor remender's take is because, at least imo, it closely echoes morrison's original take. morrison intro'd the old woman--who i don't think was intended to be real--and had him effortlessly fooling jean and charles. later takes and opinions don't seem to be in line with that.
when the 'evil' fantomex took all the misdirect power though, we saw just how powerful it could be if not nanite controlled. betsy was IN the reality, knew it, and still took it for real. it's def more than the usual illusion power, even if it's not actual reality warping. and we know it's not telepathic in nature as well, so, doesn't leave much left i guess.
he tried misdirect against karnak and it failed? where was this?
yeah, so much potential for him.
maybe not in the sense that he can be fooled too. but i see no reason whatsoever to think she can see through his power and the way he uses his power makes it seem like he's the one more likely to win this than not most of the time.
I disagree. We've retroactively applied Remender to Morrison in this case. Fantomex's misdirection was literal then. He read body language, lied effectively, and used spy skills to distract people from his motives. There was no paranormal element, other than doing it really effectively. It was just a slight of hand.
Truthfully, he never misdirected Jean or Xavier. I'm not sure where this forum myth began, but he only lied to them. The lady, the house, etc were all real, and it doesn't violate Morrison's intent. Morrison intended him to be a liar, so he lied. Fantomex enjoyed being inscrutable to the two most powerful telepaths in the world. He poured wine on his own head, lied about the info on the cd(which he stored with his porn collection), and wants 1 billion dollars from Xavier. He was screwing with them the entire time, so they don't what to do other than follow him. It totally makes sense he'd lie about the existence of the old lady. It's what he does. It doesn't give you time to think, so you might just let him go, like Jean did, in the tunnel.
No, I'm saying the Karnak showing is consistent with his inability to apply this stuff to virtually all the fist fights he gets in. Maybe it's more difficult to cast while he's brawling, or maybe it is some form of hypnosis that doesn't work when your opponent is already engaged on you. Even Remender presents some examples of him talking people into the illusion, hypnotist style.
Remender undoubtedly writes the best Fantomex(best version of all those characters tbh), but he really is the outlier here. Same with him taking Psylocke's tk away. His version isn't any closer to Morrison's than anyone else's tbh, and is further away in many regards.
Weapon XIII(Evil Fantomex)exists but the nanites render that moot. And Psylocke still beat him in a fight too, circling back to what I said earlier about it's combat function.
Last edited by StyleTime on Mar 10th, 2018 at 06:13 PM
Possibly. Would it really be enough time though? If she broke his neck, the illusory Fantomex fades immediately. I don't know if she'd turn hers off since the realization would logically hit so quickly.
I do admit however, he might kill hers before she kills his due to his guns. Shooting an illusion is logically faster than flying over to punch it, unless she is way faster than I'm thinking.
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) have TOLD me repeatedly she can see through realities, and....neither of you have shown a damn thing. but i'm just supposed to go ahead and believe she can do what only jamie f'n braddock has ever done?? lol yeah.... 
Mar 7th, 2018 01:05 PM
