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Fantomex Vs Sensor Girl
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
She did it on a different occasion.

But I like how Fantomex is this invincible character who cannot be fooled by someone else.


you....didn't read what i wrote through this discussion, did you? i said she COULD fool him. however, his misdirects tend to allow the opponent to see themselves winning. if she believes she won, she'd drop her power and he'd kill her. if she showed him the same thing, maybe they both drop powers but he still has his ranged weapons and he would kill her. at one time he has bullets that don't miss...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would this "celestial ship" be any different than controlling a promethean giant?

Oh right, nobody can break the misdirection even when they can straight up see through it and beat him in his own game.

I like this invincible Fantomex.


really abhi? both you and prep (solid company you're keeping thumb up ) have TOLD me repeatedly she can see through realities, and....neither of you have shown a damn thing. but i'm just supposed to go ahead and believe she can do what only jamie f'n braddock has ever done?? lol yeah.... thumb up

you also claimed betsy broke a misdirect. still waiting to see that too.

btw--wth are u talking about with a promethean giant? SHIP is tech--high level artificial intelligence--a computer. the giants were living beings. they aren't even close in regards to the type of beings they are and how they would perceive things.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 01:05 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
not sure the shrink ray is standard--in fact, pretty sure it isn't. bullets ran out too, but they may be standard, depends when he's taken from. regardless, regular bullets end her unless i'm missing some info? and again--MISDIRECT IS NOT ILLUSIONS.


Shrink ray is standard, you're lucky I didn't use it thumb up

He got rid of Karnak that way IIRC.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 01:13 PM
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leonidas
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lol using it once doesn't=standard.... he's used it on extremely rare occasions given the number of his appearances. in a tourney, if i were using fantomex, i wouldn't expect to have that as gear. as a host i wouldn't allow it either. he also doesn't need it here to win this.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 03:43 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Doesn't he always have the World with him though? He's always got it with him, to saefeguard it.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 03:47 PM
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leonidas
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no, it's not always on his person. at points he's had it, at other times he's had it hidden at more often than not it's simply forgotten about by writers. which is too bad, because the best fantomex arcs have been the ones where the world played a role imo. he really is a great character. so much that could still be explored. the splitting of his minds was really dumb but writers could use the world and the weapon x history to really build on. he's def one of my fave "new" characters marvel has put out in the last bunch of years. morrison, go figure.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 04:10 PM
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Senor Cage
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
you....didn't read what i wrote through this discussion, did you? i said she COULD fool him. however, his misdirects tend to allow the opponent to see themselves winning. if she believes she won, she'd drop her power and he'd kill her. if she showed him the same thing, maybe they both drop powers but he still has his ranged weapons and he would kill her. at one time he has bullets that don't miss...



really abhi? both you and prep (solid company you're keeping thumb up ) have TOLD me repeatedly she can see through realities, and....neither of you have shown a damn thing. but i'm just supposed to go ahead and believe she can do what only jamie f'n braddock has ever done?? lol yeah.... thumb up

you also claimed betsy broke a misdirect. still waiting to see that too.

btw--wth are u talking about with a promethean giant? SHIP is tech--high level artificial intelligence--a computer. the giants were living beings. they aren't even close in regards to the type of beings they are and how they would perceive things.


Sensor Girl can affect machines too. And is fantomex immune to spells? She can conjure those up, too.

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 06:49 PM
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StyleTime
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Just some notes, because **** quoting 9 million posts.

Fantomex's shrink gun works on inanimate objects only, per his own admission. https://s10.postimg.org/k6dxsipll/Shrink.jpg

Karnak knocked Fantomex out when they fought. (He was in The World because Young Jean mind freaked him. He wasn't shrank down, although it would be funny.)
https://s10.postimg.org/96sqgx6w9/Karnak1.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/mnpozt4d5/Karnak2.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/osa20vqk9/Karnak3.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/z2ch04o5l/Karnak4.jpg

AoA Wolverine-ocalypse broke a misdirect too. AoA Iceman avoided it by hiding his consciousness. It doesn't take a high level reality warper to counter it, but rather a specific powerset it seems. We can't say for certain if Sensor Girl could do it, but I'm not opposed to the idea entirely.
https://postimg.org/image/ygwovjpv9/
https://postimg.org/image/w8dx0glnp/

Fantomex didn't break Deathlok's misdirect. Deathlok left a taunting message within the illusion, Fantomex saw it and the scenario ended. It's the same as when Archangel stabbed Fantomex in a misdirection but realized his wings were just stabbing the ground. Going out of bounds, so to speak, ends the thing.

Psylocke didn't break a misdirection. She ripped off Fantomex's TP blocker with TK, then got inside his head before KOing him after their fight.
https://postimg.org/image/b6iizk86t/

Prep man mentioned some kind of super speed and shields from Sensor Girl's ring? How fast and durable is she with that?

Yes, Fantomex can still misdirect after returning to normal. Xavier's consciousness is in his body currently though. And Proteus fused him with Psylocke last issue, so...more dumb shit to look forward to.
https://s10.postimg.org/pjbyy6ppl/RCO021.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/du7za7r15/RCO022.jpg

My instinct is that the fight is a quickdraw, but I'm no Sensor Girl expert by any stretch.


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Last edited by StyleTime on Mar 8th, 2018 at 01:33 AM

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 01:28 AM
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Senor Cage
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I'm betting she can, since she can "remove the illusions of distance and size". Fantomex will try and fool sensor girl, but that "specific power set" of hers can: "She was also granted the power to see through the illusions of the world, be they illusions of size, or distance, or time, or even death."

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 02:24 AM
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leonidas
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i was aware of the apoc scene but he was in it for a lengthy period of time before he realized it was a lie. he believed he'd killed all of them before understanding what was going on. and even when he hit fantomex, he STILL saw the misdriect--he just knew that what was happening wasn't real. it didn't actually "break" until he struck fantomex and he ended it. misdirect never lasts very long. but breaking it? seeing "through it"? no one, not even that apoc, was able tot do that--and that apoc was uber... it wouldn't have to last long here either here. in that same arc (??) he misdirected one of the horseman's emotions into thinking it was "in love" and it killed itself. lol

and it failed against bobby because he didn't have a consciousness. again, not really relevant here and makes sense that without a consciousness something can't be misdirected. though i did completely forget about that scene. thumb up

based on who and how a misdirect has failed, i still see no reason whatsoever, especially based on the support, to think she can see through a misdriect. /shrug


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 01:19 PM
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Sin I AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
Just some notes, because **** quoting 9 million posts.

Fantomex's shrink gun works on inanimate objects only, per his own admission. https://s10.postimg.org/k6dxsipll/Shrink.jpg

Karnak knocked Fantomex out when they fought. (He was in The World because Young Jean mind freaked him. He wasn't shrank down, although it would be funny.)
https://s10.postimg.org/96sqgx6w9/Karnak1.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/mnpozt4d5/Karnak2.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/osa20vqk9/Karnak3.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/z2ch04o5l/Karnak4.jpg

AoA Wolverine-ocalypse broke a misdirect too. AoA Iceman avoided it by hiding his consciousness. It doesn't take a high level reality warper to counter it, but rather a specific powerset it seems. We can't say for certain if Sensor Girl could do it, but I'm not opposed to the idea entirely.
https://postimg.org/image/ygwovjpv9/
https://postimg.org/image/w8dx0glnp/

Fantomex didn't break Deathlok's misdirect. Deathlok left a taunting message within the illusion, Fantomex saw it and the scenario ended. It's the same as when Archangel stabbed Fantomex in a misdirection but realized his wings were just stabbing the ground. Going out of bounds, so to speak, ends the thing.

Psylocke didn't break a misdirection. She ripped off Fantomex's TP blocker with TK, then got inside his head before KOing him after their fight.
https://postimg.org/image/b6iizk86t/

Prep man mentioned some kind of super speed and shields from Sensor Girl's ring? How fast and durable is she with that?

Yes, Fantomex can still misdirect after returning to normal. Xavier's consciousness is in his body currently though. And Proteus fused him with Psylocke last issue, so...more dumb shit to look forward to.
https://s10.postimg.org/pjbyy6ppl/RCO021.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/du7za7r15/RCO022.jpg

My instinct is that the fight is a quickdraw, but I'm no Sensor Girl expert by any stretch.


great post. a walking xavier with psi-knife and misdirect would be uber


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 01:41 PM
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leonidas
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about the shrink ray--i recall that scene now you posted it, but it's odd. the shrink ray gun doom created DID work on organics. so i wonder if he actually stole it from doom, or if that was another lie of his? if he did, it was clearly a different gun, or...he was lying to pool?

such a strange character. i still can't for the life of me figure out who the old woman in his house was. he introduced her to jean and charles, but i'd always believed her to be a construct of his--his house too was implied to be...not entirely real at one point. but we saw him talking to the old woman in a one-to-one scenario a couple times too. so strange.... though seems the recent developments with the character continue to disappoint. /shrug


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 02:30 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
I'm betting she can, since she can "remove the illusions of distance and size". Fantomex will try and fool sensor girl, but that "specific power set" of hers can: "She was also granted the power to see through the illusions of the world, be they illusions of size, or distance, or time, or even death."

Yeah, it's possible. I'm thinking it's a quickdraw from what I've seen though.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i was aware of the apoc scene but he was in it for a lengthy period of time before he realized it was a lie. he believed he'd killed all of them before understanding what was going on. and even when he hit fantomex, he STILL saw the misdriect--he just knew that what was happening wasn't real. it didn't actually "break" until he struck fantomex and he ended it. misdirect never lasts very long. but breaking it? seeing "through it"? no one, not even that apoc, was able tot do that--and that apoc was uber... it wouldn't have to last long here either here. in that same arc (??) he misdirected one of the horseman's emotions into thinking it was "in love" and it killed itself. lol

and it failed against bobby because he didn't have a consciousness. again, not really relevant here and makes sense that without a consciousness something can't be misdirected. though i did completely forget about that scene. thumb up

based on who and how a misdirect has failed, i still see no reason whatsoever, especially based on the support, to think she can see through a misdriect. /shrug

Certainly. I'm by no means arguing Sensor Girl can do it. I'm just not onboard with the idea that Goat Monk level power is required.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
about the shrink ray--i recall that scene now you posted it, but it's odd. the shrink ray gun doom created DID work on organics. so i wonder if he actually stole it from doom, or if that was another lie of his? if he did, it was clearly a different gun, or...he was lying to pool?

such a strange character. i still can't for the life of me figure out who the old woman in his house was. he introduced her to jean and charles, but i'd always believed her to be a construct of his--his house too was implied to be...not entirely real at one point. but we saw him talking to the old woman in a one-to-one scenario a couple times too. so strange.... though seems the recent developments with the character continue to disappoint. /shrug

He could be lying of course, but he's never shrank a person down to my knowledge.

Yeah, Fantomex could be discussed in his own thread tbh. He is intended to be a hall of mirrors, as Psylocke pointed out, so a nuanced discussion of him would include things that make vs matches difficult to handle. For example, we choose to privilege Remender's interpretation of misdirection because Uncanny X-Force was incredible, but misdirection is hardly consistent. It's also been presented as a form of hypnosis or just general illusion casting. This could explain why it's usually ineffective once people are engaged in combat with him, ala Karnak. The majority of his appearances, he just kinda fights like a gun-toting martial artist with a vague ability to lie really effectively. He often appears closer to TAO than anything else.

Not arguing for Sensor Girl, but we do need to acknowledge it's not cut and dry, taking all appearances into account.


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Last edited by StyleTime on Mar 9th, 2018 at 01:55 AM

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 01:41 AM
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Senor Cage
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Hey, Styletime. Here are some more feats.

I guess this is what her bio means when she can see through the worlds illusions.

(please log in to view the image)

Sensor Girl has the power to phuck with ALL seeing Emerald Eye of Ekron

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Sensor Girl Vs Persuader

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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 03:53 AM
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Sensor (ZH) has the ability to block telepathic assaults, even as powerful as Universo's, who had universal TP.

(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)


Here she even fools Universo.
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Saturn Girl made Universo believe that he was winning.
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(please log in to view the image)

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 03:55 AM
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SG implants false memories in Saturn Girl.

(please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 03:57 AM
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leonidas
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geezus prep. stop with irrelevant scans. yes she can fool him. that has NEVER been the issue. fact is you still haven't shown anything that leads me to believe she can see through his power.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
Yeah, it's possible. I'm thinking it's a quickdraw from what I've seen though.


maybe, though i don't think the winner of the quick draw really matters. the type of 'illusion' is what matters. like i said, if she thinks she's won, seems logical she'd dispel her own illusion at which point she would die. she seems far less likely to create that type of scenario than he does imo. plus his ranged weapons are a huge edge here if both illusions are foregone.

quote:
Certainly. I'm by no means arguing Sensor Girl can do it. I'm just not onboard with the idea that Goat Monk level power is required.


to understand what is happening? maybe not, though the only time it happen is after a logical contradiction gives it away. to actually "break" the power? even fantomex said no one has ever done what braddock did. it's def ill-defined in nature, but imo it is a type of reality altering. it doesn't last long, and has been called several different things, but i think the initial intent was this. and the reason we favor remender's take is because, at least imo, it closely echoes morrison's original take. morrison intro'd the old woman--who i don't think was intended to be real--and had him effortlessly fooling jean and charles. later takes and opinions don't seem to be in line with that.

when the 'evil' fantomex took all the misdirect power though, we saw just how powerful it could be if not nanite controlled. betsy was IN the reality, knew it, and still took it for real. it's def more than the usual illusion power, even if it's not actual reality warping. and we know it's not telepathic in nature as well, so, doesn't leave much left i guess.


quote:
Yeah, Fantomex could be discussed in his own thread tbh. He is intended to be a hall of mirrors, as Psylocke pointed out, so a nuanced discussion of him would include things that make vs matches difficult to handle. For example, we choose to privilege Remender's interpretation of misdirection because Uncanny X-Force was incredible, but misdirection is hardly consistent. It's also been presented as a form of hypnosis or just general illusion casting. This could explain why it's usually ineffective once people are engaged in combat with him, ala Karnak.


he tried misdirect against karnak and it failed? where was this?

quote:
The majority of his appearances, he just kinda fights like a gun-toting martial artist with a vague ability to lie really effectively. He often appears closer to TAO than anything else.


yeah, so much potential for him. thumb up

quote:
Not arguing for Sensor Girl, but we do need to acknowledge it's not cut and dry, taking all appearances into account. [/B]


maybe not in the sense that he can be fooled too. but i see no reason whatsoever to think she can see through his power and the way he uses his power makes it seem like he's the one more likely to win this than not most of the time.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 06:03 PM
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 07:52 PM
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So, yeah, Sensor Girl can see through ALL illusions of the World. Fantomex uses illusions.

(please log in to view the image)

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 08:44 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas


to understand what is happening? maybe not, though the only time it happen is after a logical contradiction gives it away. to actually "break" the power? even fantomex said no one has ever done what braddock did. it's def ill-defined in nature, but imo it is a type of reality altering. it doesn't last long, and has been called several different things, but i think the initial intent was this. and the reason we favor remender's take is because, at least imo, it closely echoes morrison's original take. morrison intro'd the old woman--who i don't think was intended to be real--and had him effortlessly fooling jean and charles. later takes and opinions don't seem to be in line with that.

when the 'evil' fantomex took all the misdirect power though, we saw just how powerful it could be if not nanite controlled. betsy was IN the reality, knew it, and still took it for real. it's def more than the usual illusion power, even if it's not actual reality warping. and we know it's not telepathic in nature as well, so, doesn't leave much left i guess.


he tried misdirect against karnak and it failed? where was this?

I disagree. We've retroactively applied Remender to Morrison in this case. Fantomex's misdirection was literal then. He read body language, lied effectively, and used spy skills to distract people from his motives. There was no paranormal element, other than doing it really effectively. It was just a slight of hand.

Truthfully, he never misdirected Jean or Xavier. I'm not sure where this forum myth began, but he only lied to them. The lady, the house, etc were all real, and it doesn't violate Morrison's intent. Morrison intended him to be a liar, so he lied. Fantomex enjoyed being inscrutable to the two most powerful telepaths in the world. He poured wine on his own head, lied about the info on the cd(which he stored with his porn collection), and wants 1 billion dollars from Xavier. He was screwing with them the entire time, so they don't what to do other than follow him. It totally makes sense he'd lie about the existence of the old lady. It's what he does. It doesn't give you time to think, so you might just let him go, like Jean did, in the tunnel.

No, I'm saying the Karnak showing is consistent with his inability to apply this stuff to virtually all the fist fights he gets in. Maybe it's more difficult to cast while he's brawling, or maybe it is some form of hypnosis that doesn't work when your opponent is already engaged on you. Even Remender presents some examples of him talking people into the illusion, hypnotist style.

Remender undoubtedly writes the best Fantomex(best version of all those characters tbh), but he really is the outlier here. Same with him taking Psylocke's tk away. His version isn't any closer to Morrison's than anyone else's tbh, and is further away in many regards.

Weapon XIII(Evil Fantomex)exists but the nanites render that moot. And Psylocke still beat him in a fight too, circling back to what I said earlier about it's combat function.


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Last edited by StyleTime on Mar 10th, 2018 at 06:13 PM

Old Post Mar 10th, 2018 06:05 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas

maybe, though i don't think the winner of the quick draw really matters. the type of 'illusion' is what matters. like i said, if she thinks she's won, seems logical she'd dispel her own illusion at which point she would die. she seems far less likely to create that type of scenario than he does imo. plus his ranged weapons are a huge edge here if both illusions are foregone.


Possibly. Would it really be enough time though? If she broke his neck, the illusory Fantomex fades immediately. I don't know if she'd turn hers off since the realization would logically hit so quickly.

I do admit however, he might kill hers before she kills his due to his guns. Shooting an illusion is logically faster than flying over to punch it, unless she is way faster than I'm thinking.

So we're on the same page. thumb up


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2018 06:25 PM
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