1. Unless the primary explosion was the Surfer and the rest is just Galactus’ death throes. Or that the explosion caused a rip in space that acted like a mini singularity that lasted for a short moment, etc. Either of the above is better than your “not a normal explosion” route. Or maybe it was just shown that way for dramatic effect because an exploding Galactus would look boring on screen.
Bottom line is, the story was told in a simple manner. The explanation for what happend is defined[/] by the script. Someone saying that they both gonna kill himself and hos target and then exploding right after is meant to die from the explosion he caused. There was NO indication or even a hint of him “dying from energy drain” or anything in that scene or even in the movie that would even implied that he can die from this. There needs to be a storytelling tool needed for you to even argue that your theory is even viable.
My explanation is simple and consistent with the script. Yours is a theory unsupported by anything and you are just throwing it out there and hoping it sticks. You have zero evidence of death by drain. End of the day, we compare evidence. You cannot just stand trying to discredit my points without also supporting yours.
Dude. Ligtning has an average temp of 30,000 degrees Celsius. An nuke can create heat in excess of 100,000,000 degrees Celsius. Do your research first pls..
Lightning is hotter than the [b]surface of the sun. Which is its coolest layer. A nuke creates temperatures equal to the sun’s interior....
2. Actually, the Surfer’s explosion happened at (2:50) of your clip.
What happens at (2:52-2:54) where it sends a wave that hits the Earth, seems to be a separate event. Which happens an entire Earth distance away from Surfer’s initial explosion at (2:50). Either a singularity sucking in Galactus matter and blasting it into space or just a dramatic representation of Galactus’ death throes.
Either way, this point is meaningless. As a) atmosphere/magnetic field can still deflect this and it looks like it did. b) it is a serparate event that has no bearing on the initial explosion as it happened at a different time and different position.
And no one said this was an eartly bomb. Don’t strawman pls. I said an explosion is an explosion is an explosion which will share similar (but not exact) characteristics and magnitude due to its size. It is not exact but it establishes the orders of magntitude we are talking about here. Jeez, no offense, but it is hard to explain things to you. I’m pretty sure everyone reading this already gets it.
Here is as simple an explanation as I can some up with. A mountain of rock and a mountain of soil would have far different weights. But the magnitutde is established. It is a mountain of matter. Which you are comparing to a small boulder. Even if this was “not a normal explosion” (whatever that means), it is still pretty much established that its size demonstrates that Thor’s best attack is just a spark compared to it. Can we at least agree on this now?
3) Now you are just splitting hairs to differentiate one explosion from the other. First Thor is immune to his lightning, now apparently the explosion affected him because it hit the ground. Surfer isn’t firing a blast or heat vision. He is detonating himself. He is at the center of the blast. Story says that he is doing this to end himself and Galactus. We shouldn’t even be going further than that. That is all the explanation needed.
Projecting the energy that causes the explosion does not mean he is projecting the explosion itself. <— this logic is consistent to both Thor’s and Surfer’s showing. Being in the center of the explosion means that you will be suffering its ill effects.
You need to prove immunity here. Again, you cannot just sit there trying to discredit my point by throwing theories around without substiating your own theory.
4) Um. In order for you to say this, you will need to point out the parts I missed/ignored. I can do so for you (specifically that you need to stil mentioning Galactus’ durability as it has no bearing in this debate. Something that I have mentioned many many times), can you do so for me?
1. It can be eaily explained by the primary explosion being caused by the Surfer and the rest is just Galactus’ death throes. Or that the explosion caused a rip in space that acted like a mini singularity that lasted for a short moment, etc. Either of the above is better than your “not a normal explosion” route. Or maybe it was just shown that way for dramatic effect because an exploding Galactus would look boring on screen. <—- better explanations than “not a normal explosion”.
Btw, what do you mean by exactly by “not a normal explosion”? I mean, what do you think it is?
Bottom line is, the story was told in a simple manner. The explanation for what happend is defined by the script. Someone saying that they both gonna kill himself and hos target and then exploding right after is meant to die from the explosion he caused. There was NO indication or even a hint of him “dying from energy drain” or anything in that scene or even in the movie that would even implied that he can die from this. There needs to be a storytelling tool needed for you to even argue that your theory is even viable.
My explanation is simple and consistent with the script. Yours is a theory unsupported by anything and you are just throwing it out there and hoping it sticks. You have zero evidence of death by drain. End of the day, we compare evidence. You cannot just stand trying to discredit my points without also supporting yours.
Dude. Ligtning has an average temp of 30,000 degrees Celsius. An nuke can create heat in excess of 100,000,000 degrees Celsius. Do your research first pls..
Lightning is hotter than the surface of the sun. Which is its coolest layer. A nuke creates temperatures equal to the sun’s interior....
2. Actually, the Surfer’s explosion happened at (2:50) of your clip.
What happens at (2:52-2:54) where it sends a wave that hits the Earth, seems to be a separate event. Which happens an entire Earth distance away from Surfer’s initial explosion at (2:50). Either a singularity sucking in Galactus matter and blasting it into space or just a dramatic representation of Galactus’ death throes.
Either way, this point is meaningless. As a) atmosphere/magnetic field can still deflect this and it looks like it did. b) it is a serparate event that has no bearing on the initial explosion as it happened at a different time and different position.
And no one said this was an eartly bomb. Don’t strawman pls. I said an explosion is an explosion is an explosion which will share similar (but not exact) characteristics and magnitude due to its size. It is not exact but it establishes the orders of magntitude we are talking about here. Jeez, no offense, but it is hard to explain things to you. I’m pretty sure everyone reading this already gets it.
Here is as simple an explanation as I can some up with. A mountain of rock and a mountain of soil would have far different weights. But the magnitutde is established. It is a mountain of matter. Which you are comparing to a small boulder. Even if this was “not a normal explosion” (whatever that means), it is still pretty much established that its size demonstrates that Thor’s best attack is just a spark compared to it. Can we at least agree on this now?
3) Now you are just splitting hairs to differentiate one explosion from the other. First Thor is immune to his lightning, now apparently the explosion affected him because it hit the ground. Surfer isn’t firing a blast or heat vision. He is detonating himself. He is at the center of the blast. Story says that he is doing this to end himself and Galactus. We shouldn’t even be going further than that. That is all the explanation needed.
Projecting the energy that causes an explosion does not mean he is projecting the explosion itself and does not confer immunity to it. <— this logic is consistent to both Thor’s and Surfer’s showing. Being in the center of the explosion means that you will be suffering its ill effects. And the script seems to specify that this explosion is meant to kill the Surfer along with Galactus. <— see? Consistent. Script-relevant. Simple. Neat.
You need to prove immunity here. Again, you cannot just sit there trying to discredit my point by throwing theories around without substiating your own theory.
4) Um. In order for you to say this, you will need to point out the parts I missed/ignored. I can do so for you (specifically that you need to stil mentioning Galactus’ durability as it has no bearing in this debate. Something that I have mentioned many many times), can you do so for me?
Last edited by Nibedicus on Mar 9th, 2018 at 08:32 PM
It's hard when we atalking about the terrific F4 2. The movie was a massive production error. Starting by Galactus being a worm and ending in the Surfer somehow defeating him in a terrible end!...
I just have to process the evidence well before concluding.
1. What i think it is? Well it is evidently Cosmic Energy being radiated out of Surfer's Body. Which is pretty reasonable, since Galactus' is the wearer of Cosmic Power, which is the energy which basically transformed the SS.
Considering that Galactus was weak, and basically a cloud of dust (He didn't had his armor like in the comics to protect him) the cosmic energy being radiated from the Surfer was mortal.
It's evidently it's cosmic energy being radiated. It would easily explain why the vaccum was created, and why that massive explosion. It would also explain why the surfer seemed to glow in his final moments.
Furthermore, the fact that the "explosion" didn't killed the surfer, since he was only radiating his powers and not really exploding.
If am right and this is Cosmic Energy, then Hela is likely screwed. But the problem is that the movie never even touched Galactus' background history, nor did they explained Cosmic Energy.
So basically it's just an assumption based on comics intel.
I concede the lightning's argument.
2. Did you watch the video???
The bomb Starfish Prime was able to create auroras and electromagnetic
pulses that affected earth.
Let's bring together your intel with mine
Starfish Prime Nuclear bomb:
Explosion: 1.2MT.
Distance: 400 KM
Based on your own statements and intel:
SS "Explosion":
Explosion:
Distance:
Let's do a bit of Math:
SS explosion detonated according to you 30,000 kms away, whilst my bomb exploted 400kms away, yet your bomb according to you and your tool was 4 billion MT!!!!!! Mine 1.2.
Basically your explosion is 13,000 MT strong per kilometer. Whilst mine is, 3*10^-3 MT per kilometer....
Do you really think earth wouldn't have felt it that was an explosion? Come on it isn't that hard to understand! Specially after seeing that the blast was able to send material that crossed through Earth.
Again, to me that isn't an explosion, or atleast not a nuclear one.
3. Let's settle the explosion/not explosion debate before continuing.
Good point. But she would likely get hacked by Vision. He still has the Mind Gem in his head, the same mind gem which hacked JARVIS and turned Hawk Eye into a puppet.
Also, returning time would return it previously to strange getting hacked...Don't you think?
__________________
Last edited by Josh_Alexander on Mar 10th, 2018 at 12:33 AM
1. Don't know the point you are trying to make here.
FYI, Galactus was not "weak". He had enough mass to generate a gravitational field strong enough to tear its rings off Saturn (if you don't know you need mass to generate a gravitational field and you need an explosion stronger than a body's gravitational field in order to shatter it). Saturn has a mass 95 times of that of Earth's.
"Cosmic Energy" does not explain "why a vacuum was created" (as space is a vacuum)... That... doesn't make any sense. You just literally made up your own science here.
It sure looked like an explosion to me. I mean you yourself claim that Thor hitting the GROUND = Thor gets hit by the explosion by the energy he generated. But Surfer hitting Galactus (w/c we have establish has mass) that is ALL AROUND him = Surfer not getting hit by explosion by the energy he generated. Be consistent with your logic, at least.
No it is a deduction based on multiple evidence which includes visual cues and scripting/writing and writer's obvious intent.
2. A few things you didn't consider:
a) Starfish prime was detonated within the Earth's atmosphere (w/c is well over 300 miles thick whereas SFP was detonated at 250 miles) <--- this alone throws your entire Starfish Prime comparison argument in the pooper.
b) And it still didn't have any dire effects on ground beyond it's EMP and an aurora (An aurora is actually just a light show). So what effects exactly do you mean?
c) And your entire calculation per distance per MT is ridiculous. That is not how you calculate explosive yield and its range/effects. As, based on the calculator, there is an exponential decrease in yield per effects distance, not a linear one. Example: 6 billion MT yield would only create slightly twice the explosion as a 600 million MT one and a 60 million MT one about a little under half of that and six million about half of that. The dispersion of energy is decreased per volume NOT area.
So you just wasted both our time with that "logic" and "math". For it is completely meaningless.
And the material didn't "cross thru Earth", pls pause the clip you posted at exactly (2:54). It actually struck the Earth ang got stopped. It is the rest of the debris (that didn't touch the Earth) that passed by.
And no one is saying it is a nuclear bomb/explosion, hell I already explained this (Come on, man. This is just disrespectful at this point) and I quote:
"And no one said this was an eartly bomb. Don’t strawman pls. I said an explosion is an explosion is an explosion which will share similar (but not exact) characteristics and magnitude due to its size. It is not exact but it establishes the orders of magntitude we are talking about here."
Let's be honest here. You just don't like the "feat" thus you are trying to find reasons to disregard it by muddying up the quantifications. This is a cheap tactic and the fact that the magnitudes are so far apart (it's not even funny), it should be a non-issue. Again, mountain vs boulder.
Last edited by Nibedicus on Mar 10th, 2018 at 01:24 AM
Visions one feat with the mind gym could arguably be tied back to him being a superior A.I. to Ultron and even then he headed direct contact just like any of the other times it's been used, it's always right up close(septor and Hawkeye/Headeadbutted Ultron). And even if he did there's still another Psychic on the team who's potentially more dangerous(David ).
Team MCUs chance seem to heavily rely on the gem which is something I don't see strange using right off the bat or being able to have the time to pull off. And rolling back time wouldn't undo whatevers done to Strang's mind since he'd be essentially stepping outside of time the moment it activated as his consciousness was.
__________________ The end always justify's the means by which they were brought to.
I said he was weak, not that he couldn't move. Gravity is due to mass, not energy.
....It's called comics....Cosmic energy is powerful enough to mutate beings into basically god-like (E.g The Silver Surfer).
Ehh...Ofcourse it does, Cosmic Energy can create Black Holes, Portals, and a lot of more things.
It's the only reasonable thing i can attribute to that feat.
It has mass yes, but you can't compare dust with a solid surface. Galactus ain't solid, which means the energy can cross without any resistance. That's the very reason i don't think the "explosion" isn't as dangerous. If it was a Solid Galactus' armor we were talking about, i'd be on your behalf.
2. a. Totally irrelevant. A bomb of the proportions which you describe would be felt by earth! Radiation specially gamma rays and x rays can travel through vaccum!
We saw the light wave or whatever passing through Earth. Which means radiation and EMP should have passed too if it was something similar to a Nuclear explosion.
Yet it WASN'T.
b. A 1.2MT nuclear warhead! Yours is 4BILLION MT!!! Again, it's common sense.
c. Do you know Newton's laws of motion? An object in motion stays in motion unless an outward force acts upon it.
That's what basically happens in a vaccum (space), radiation will keeps spreading without stopping unless an object stops it. That object casually results to be Earth!
The heat wave of the blast won't touch earth i agree, but Radiation and EMP...Damn Earth would get scorched.
You are right about one thing. I don't like the feat, it's too shabby. The movie itself was too shabby!
I would support the idea of that being Cosmic Energy being released more than anything else! Nuclear..No.
Look Nibedicus, it's clear by now we won't agree on the "explosion" thing. Nice debate though, respect your points. Really good arguments.
I rather stay with the version of it being Cosmic Energy rather than an explosion, although i know it's against MVF rules to bring comic knowledge on board.
So, i'll concede. Hela would lose to Surfer in a 1vs1. Just because i think Cosmic Energy>>>Surtur's Flamming Sword.
However, i don't really see Surfer being able to bring such a feat on board though. He would annihilate his team in the way. And still, Vision would survive it. Strange could still reverse time.
Well, I can certainly respect a good concession, even an agree to disagree. thumb up
Fun debate allthroughout.
I can certainly agree that he won’t detonate in a fight. He would kill everyone of his teammates. It was a just a way to establish the top end of his abilities, after all. Meaning that, given a needed push, he has enough power to hurt her due to the magnitutde of his max attack and with enough attacks, she will go down.
Edit. I would, of course, go back to my points regarding MCU vs Fox. Surfer alone would give the team fits. Like I said, Strange is the only threat here. But he is as likely to use his time loop as Surfer is in his Galactus buster.
IMO, Fox team trashes MCU team.
Anyway, good day.
Last edited by Nibedicus on Mar 10th, 2018 at 04:54 AM
Clearly Vision grabs Ultron's head when he hacked it. Just like Loki had to touch with the Scepter Hawk Eye's chest. Clearly there is a connection.
A.I. derived from the Mind Gem. Both Ultron and Vision were creation of the Mind Stone.
David is very powerful i agree, but we are talking about an Infinity Stone here. The Mind Gem possesses control over all Sentient life under the Universal Scope, which includes David.
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Mar 9th, 2018 08:18 PM
