They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind
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Nah, bro. Idk why you idolize the man. Sure he was an idealist in select areas, but as a strategist he was borderline incompetent—Thrawn would b1tch slap Adolf had they ever met. Going against the German-Soviet non-aggression pact was by far one of the dumbest f*cking things a person of power could've done when accounting for the entirety of history. His circle of officers should've killed him while they had the chance if they were serious about the success of Germany.
__________________ "Technology equals might!" "Evolve or perish"
he is more of a symbol, i idolize him as a symbol of hope for humanity, not as a strategist
__________________
They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
quite untrue. Most of Europe had already been conquered and the few nation's that were holding out had almost no chance of winning. If he had simply waited, he would have conquered Europe and struck at Russia later. Instead, he diverted much needed troops and supplies to a fight that didn't even need to happen. He was for sure autistic. All of that in conjunction with his racism and overall idiotic ideals makes him arguably the worst person to ever look up to.
Hitler didn't exactly have much choice when it came to the Russian invasion. Stalin in 1941 was in the midst of implementing a Five Year Plan focused on munitions and armaments, and I believe there has actually been evidence uncovered that Stalin was preparing for an assault on Germany at some point. And so for Hitler, it would actually make tactical sense to attack early before the Russians had attained comparable levels of industry and armaments. It was a matter of who shot first, rather than whether either would shoot. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were ideological enemies with expansionist tendencies, after all.
And I think you'll find that, on the contrary, many historians roll their eyes at the suggestion that, had Hitler done A or B right, he would have won. The forces arrayed against the Nazis were too many and too difficult to assail.
Registered: Jul 2015
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind
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"On August 23, 1939–shortly before World War II (1939-45) broke out in Europe–enemies Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union surprised the world by signing the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact, in which the two countries agreed to take no military action against each other for the next 10 years. With Europe on the brink of another major war, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin (1879-1953) viewed the pact as a way to keep his nation on peaceful terms with Germany, while giving him time to build up the Soviet military. German chancellor Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) used the pact to make sure Germany was able to invade Poland unopposed. The pact also contained a secret agreement in which the Soviets and Germans agreed how they would later divide up Eastern Europe. The German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact fell apart in June 1941, when Nazi forces invaded the Soviet Union." https://www.history.com/topics/worl...aggression-pact
"The Nazis and Soviets had been mortal enemies on the opposite sides of the ideological spectrum who used hatred of one another to fuel their political purges and murderous regimes. Now, however, Realpolitik trumped ideology. After the Germans occupied Czechoslovakia earlier in the year in violation of the Munich Agreement, Stalin questioned the resolve of the British and French to fight the Nazis. The Soviets, meanwhile, found a peace deal with the Germans attractive given that they were already engaged in a fierce battle on their eastern front with the Japanese and the Red Army was still weakened from Stalin’s purge of its top commanders in 1937 and 1938." https://www.history.com/news/the-se...ct-75-years-ago
There are several theories on why Stalin should have reacted so slowly to the invasion. Some have speculated that Stalin was so shocked by the invasion and the betrayal by Hitler that he went into a state of shock. Some believe that such was his despair that Stalin retreated away from the world unable to face the magnitude of his mistake and the consequences of his error in trusting Hitler. He had assumed that Hitler would abide by the terms of the non-aggression pact of 1939. Some historians have even suggested that Stalin suffered some kind of nervous breakdown. Another, less popular theory is that Stalin deliberately withdrew from the scene, to avoid being ousted from power. When he saw that no one was about to challenge his authority he decided to take control of the situation. https://dailyhistory.org/ How_did_J..._during_WWII%3F
"Stalin’s nightmare, to be avoided at all costs, was a two-front war against Germany and Japan. His ideal outcome would be for the fascist/militarist capitalists (Germany, Italy, and Japan) to fight the bourgeois/democratic capitalists (Britain, France, and perhaps the United States), leaving the Soviet Union on the sidelines, the arbiter of Europe after the capitalists had exhausted themselves. The Nazi-Soviet Pact was Stalin’s attempt to achieve his optimal outcome. Not only did it pit Germany against Britain and France and leave the Soviet Union out of the fight – it gave Stalin the freedom to deal decisively with an isolated Japan, which he did at Nomonhan. This is not merely a hypothesis. The linkage between Nomonhan and the Nazi-Soviet Pact is clear even in the German diplomatic documents published in Washington and London in 1948. Recently revealed Soviet-era documents add confirming details." https://thediplomat.com/2012/08/the...se-war-of-1939/
TL;DR
Stalin was in no position to be attacking Germany anytime before the pact was up due to Russia having its own issues with Japan. When Hitler broke the non-aggression pact, Stalin's response suggested that he was legitimately shocked, having had full trust in Germany to keep their word while Russia built up its strength.
__________________ "Technology equals might!" "Evolve or perish"
Well, I'd agree that Stalin wasn't exactly in a position to attack in 1941 and was in denial about the invasion. However, I feel had he been able to build up the military strength to attack Germany, he would have done so, and that must have factored into Hitler's calculations in attacking Russia. They were ultimately, after all, sworn ideological enemies who were known for their opportunism. And although Stalin feared a two front war with Japan, that fear was totally allayed when Japan attacked the United States and diverted their forces elsewhere. In an alternate universe where Germany didn't attack Russia, Japan still would have attacked the US, and that would have given Stalin the freedom to attack Hitler once he had the ability.
Last edited by lazybones on Mar 12th, 2018 at 08:52 PM
Hey, hey. No politics please. Politics is a beech. I've had it enough. I see it everywhere.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Mar 12th, 2018 01:26 PM
