It's really painful when you wanna get to the point and you see these long ass posts and it takes like 5-6 seconds just to scroll through them even without reading....
Just given the savage beating he laid down on Gohan who was > perfect cell slightly, I cant see Cell having grown so much stronger than he'd beat Broly.
SPC was around the level of Cell-era SSJ2 Gohan, give or take.
LSSJ Broly was ultimately killed by Goku, after he absorbed the ki of Vegeta+Gohan+Trunks+Piccolo. That may sound like a lot of ki at first, but keep in mind that every single one of them(inc. Goku himself) was VASTLY weakened at the time, thanks to the beating Broly had given them beforehand -- Vegeta/Gohan/Trunks were SO beaten and weak, for example, that they had all reverted to their BASE-levels, and could barely even retain consciousness when they gave their remaining ki to Goku... But again: Goku, with the power of 4 almost entirely depleted Z Fighters, was enough for him to ONE-SHOT-KILL Broly... Which means he was a LOT more powerful.
So imo, SPC ~/> Movie 8 SSJ Goku(amped) >> LSSJ Broly. Ergo Cell wins.
It was never stated that SSJ Gohan was more powerful than Cell, though. Rather, Goku had seen Gohan's potential(ie. SSJ2) when they trained together in the RoSaT, and that is the power he was touting as greater than Cell's... But Goku also knew that an actual fight with Cell was the only way to draw-out Gohan's potential, which is why he opted for them to exit the RoSaT early, and also why he put Gohan in the ring against Cell after himself.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 24th, 2018 at 08:33 PM
The maximum limit is actually about 9700-9800 characters. I write all my posts in the quote section on this site so I can see how much I have to seperate at the end.
I used to waste posts trying to send them too long sometimes and the back button wouldn't have saved what I wrote.
Now it's just incredibly easy to limit break, just like Goku.
Daizenshuu 6 says that Broly is more powerful in Movie 10 than he was in Movie 8. How much more powerful is the real question.
All we know is that Boo-era SSJ2 Gohan(I'm assuming he was SSJ2 because there'd be no reason to hold back) was able to put up a minimal fight against M10 Broly, but was ultimately trounced. However, Boo-era Gohan was stated to be "a LOT" weaker than Cell-era Gohan, so he's not a good measuring stick at all.
The only other information to consider is the final beam-struggle: a weakened SSJ2(presumably) Gohan + SSJ Goku + SSJ Goten seem to be getting overpowered by Broly's beam... Then kid Trunks pulls some wacky "power of hope" shit from the sidelines that I still don't understand to this day... Then the aforementioned three completely overwhelm Broly's beam, and kill him again.
...But tbh, I could easily see SPC giving those three just as much of an issue with his final Kamehameha(if not overpowering them entirely), so again: probably not the best measuring stick.
That said, I'd probably still be inclined to side with Cell, as I believe he was generally intended to be > SSJ2 Gohan(barring Gohan's final 'dig deep' moment, of course.) And that's a level I just can't put Broly on if we look solely at his showings.
Maybe I'm missing something, though..?
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 24th, 2018 at 09:09 PM
SS2 Teen Gohan was supposed to be half power in his Cell beam battle.
Adult Gohan was supposed to be half as strong as he was as a teen.
Which makes them equal-ish or should at the end beam struggle. It also makes both SS2s around Teen SS1 level...
The difference makers are Gohan digging deep in teen form which pushed him above his full SS2 power
And Goten/Goku helping out. Goten should have been about half as strong as SS1 Gohan as a kid. Goku was likely operating as 1.5 times SS1 Gohan at that point in time, or at least a little above him.
Trunks seems to have blocked Broly from pouring more power into his attack... I don't know, the explosion kept swallowing up continued attempts or something, and they kept exploding just out of reach of hitting his ball?
...Then Gohan unleashed a beam that was WAY more powerful than anything he was capable of generating beforehand(even prior to his injury)...WAY more powerful than what SPC(who was albeit distracted) was generating...By digging deep. Certainly the Father/Son Kamehameha isn't the level SSJ2 Gohan operated at normally. It was a one-off.
Goku was definitely comparing Dabra to 'Perfect' Cell -- not 'Super' Perfect Cell. This would be more in line with Goku's characterization, as he had personally fought 'Perfect' Cell, thus would be more apt to use him as a direct comparison for Dabra.
Aside from that, if Dabra were indeed on par with SPC, it would imply that SSJ2 teen Gohan was actually >>> SPC on average. Hell, it would imply that teen Gohan could have at least contended with SPC as a SSJ1(SSJ2 was 'only' a 2x amp, remember)... But we know that was obviously NOT the case as Gohan couldn't even match your standard Perfect Cell as SSJ1, ffs. And there are a few more tidbits as well...
1.) Cell had already sensed SSJ2 Gohan's power. Simply put: Cell would NOT have returned to earth looking for a rematch with SSJ2 Gohan, if he didn't think that his post-zenkai power was AT LEAST on par with Gohan's -- he would have just nuked earth from space and been done with it(lets not act like cheap ass kamikaze attacks are beneath him, lol.)
2.) SPC was confident that he could now beat SSJ2 Gohan, despite having literally *just* gotten utterly shit-stomped by him. As mentioned above: it's doubtful that Cell would have been so sure of himself if it weren't accurate.
3.) It's possible that SPC wouldn't have even been able to harm SSJ2 Gohan at all with one of his lower-level beams if their powers weren't AT LEAST equal. Granted, Gohan didn't try to block the attack, but he definitely wasn't unprepared for it either.
4.) SPC was clearly intended to have 'evolved' to SSJ2-level, as evident by his post-resurrection aura(which was identical to that of Gohan's.) SSJ2 Gohan's aura SPC's aura
So it stands to reason that SPC could have very well been > SSJ2 Gohan, just as Perfect Cell was > SSJ1 Gohan.
Suffice to say, if a vastly weaker Boo-era Gohan was able to stalemate Dabra, then he [Dabra] definitely wasn't SPC-level. Not even close.
So I'll ask again: what has M10 Broly done to legitimately warrant being superior to SPC-level power? Nothing I've seen puts him in that tier, but it IS possible that I'm missing some key piece of information..?
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 24th, 2018 at 11:45 PM
What I'm saying is that SPC was, by all accounts, no less than equal to SSJ2 teen Gohan(in all likelihood more powerful if he truly ascended to SSJ2.) Even though SPC was distracted by Vegeta when Gohan struck, the Father/Son Kamehameha was still FAR more powerful than him. For all we know, said beam could have been approaching SSJ3-levels of power(which makes even more sense if we follow the "2-3x differences in power allow one character to stomp another character" line of 'logic' established in the very same arc.)
Do I think Movie 10 Goku+Gohan+Goten were cranking out that much power against Broly? Not really. /shrug
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 24th, 2018 at 11:59 PM
I was always under the impression Cell would win, even including the (zenkai boosted?) Broly that Gohan fights.
That's if we just include the movies though, in other media of course there's stronger versions of him. Such as that db heroes manga where he's SSJ4 or that 4D ride/short film shit where "Broly God" was a thing
I'm saying that if his sudden boost pushed him up to 3 times SS1 (power of beam not included), then it's still feasible that the Goku clan could have matched his power (power of beam again not included).
Broly was also completely ****ed once it hit him... mind you he wasn't pushing more power into his attack at the time.
Seems like the same thing to me, and you can conceivably put the family on the same level of power as SS2. They were also 'pushing their limits' as well. It was a repeat.
Goku by himself was pretty powerful at that stage, plus pushing his limits along with Gohan and Goten.
I think they can do do anything a SS2 Teen Gohan can do in other words. And they should be powerful enough to do anything he can do.
I don't know exactly how powerful SSJ1 Goku was then. More powerful than he was in the Cell Games, but not substantially imo... Gohan was "a LOT" weaker overall, and SSJ1 Goten was equal to SSJ1 Gohan. Also keep in mind that Gohan and Goten were significantly weakened, thanks to the beatdown Broly had given them earlier in the Movie. What I'm saying is: they were likely far weaker than you're giving them credit for. /shrug
I dunno, I have my doubts that those three could match SSJ2 teen Gohan's Father/Son Kamehameha, tbh(like I mentioned above: that beam could have very well been approaching SSJ3-levels of power)... But it doesn't matter. Like you said: the energy within their combined attack was powerful enough to kill Broly either way. /shrug
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 25th, 2018 at 12:47 AM
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