He powered up shit. He was just being his normal narcissistic self.
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Sidious. Valk in my opinion is an odd case for power levels. On one hand he can be underrated but on the other hand some people severely overrate him.
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"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Ziost is a better alter feat, by far, than anything Sheev has done.
Willing yourself back from the void of the Force? Like SoR Revan and the Dread Masters haven't done that before.
Traversing the galaxy as a spirit? That's sub-Ziost Vitiate.
Lightning feats? Spirit Tenebrae busts a fleet of freighters and cruisers with the excess of the attack he had focused on Arcann. Not to mention scaling vastly beyond one-shotting a Dark Council thrice.
Busting an army of Knights of Zakuul, as a spirit, after expending energy to essentially warp reality is a death field feat I'd like to see Sheev's answer for.
Shrouding the vision of the Jedi Order? The Sith were doing that casually throughout the GGW.
Causing an imbalance in the Force? I'd wager that maintaining voids in the Force by merely existing is better. Especially given that Revan's continued existence caused the Force itself to go gradually fvcking mental, sending visions to everyone and their grandma, as his own power grew.
Cosmic feats? I haven't seen anything that matches threatening the mental faculties of every Force-user, living or spiritual, in the galaxy. As a side-effect of having his spirit destroyed. It's also telling that Lana Beniko and others have stated that after Tenebrae died was the first time she had ever not felt his presence in the Force.
Oh and there's the fact that as of assimilating the power of Nathema into his own body, he became the most potent dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. Yet Tenebrae's power grew many times over in the next 1300 years.
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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Source? Since when did that attack bust "a fleet of freighters and cruisers"? From what I recall it just made some ships' internals short circuit, but I didn't see any fleet of cruisers getting busted.
Sidious scales above Nihilus, but I agree that this is one of Vitiate's more impressive feats.
Source for Vitiate alone shrouding the vision of the Jedi? Or are you trying to equate that to millions of Sith + Vitiate together kind of doing a lesser version of that?
One is galactic/universal, and the other extends over the surface of a planet. One spawned the Chosen One, the other didn't. There's no comparison at all.
Giving people visions doesn't compare to spawning the Chosen One and hindering the precognitive abilities of the entire Jedi Order lol.
Source?
Source?
You left out midichlorian manipulation, assuming we're only talking about RotS Sidious. If one wishes to talk about DE Sidious, they'd have to explain force storms, "chaotic nexus", the Lusankya, and Byss.
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Oct 30th, 2018 at 01:18 AM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Revan literally says he'd become one with the Force, but half of his spirit split off and resurrected what was literally his dead body. Did you even watch SoR? Dread Master Styrak died, but came back to life on Oricon during the Battle of the Dread Palace. I'm assuming you didn't see the Dread War either.
Based on the fact that he travels between his Voss host and his real body, traverses from Dromund Kaas to Yavin IV, travels back and forth between Valkorion and his original body. He has a lot of frequent fly air miles.
Based on what you recall or based on your bias? The fleet has shields, you do realise? They were trying to run the blockade of the Eternal Fleet when they got caught by the excess of Tenebrae's attack on Arcann.
Scales above a savant ability? Master Elli, you disappoint me. Azronger holds you in such high esteem.
The First Son; who is a fly on the wall next to his Dad, could cloud hundreds of his extremely powerful siblings from the entire Jedi Order whilst sitting next to the Jedi High Council. Amongst the weakest of said siblings could ragdoll Act II Barsen'thor. When the First Son dies, it is stated that the revealed presence of those Children in the Force caused the dark side to 'scream' such was their collective prowess. Collective prowess which is literally just Tenebrae touching them with his power.
So even if you don't want to take the Sith shrouding the Force from the Jedi at this time as a feat for Tenebrae(who has consistently one-shotted Dark Councils of said Sith), it's a tier of power that we don't have any reason to think Tenebrae isn't beyond given what just one of his children could do with a fraction of his power.
They both overpower the will of the Force. One causes manipulation of its balance, one causes it to cease to exist at all. Apples and oranges I guess?
Your idea doesn't even apply in this context. Revan came back from the dead and got more and more powerful. He was stated to exist nowhere and everywhere as a cyst in the fabric of the cosmic Force that kept getting stronger. Worse he came back with a suicidal plan to resurrect Tenebrae who would've consumed the galaxy if successful. It didn't even have the time to bring a child to term, nevermind have the child grow up. Instead it told everyone with the right power to wake the fvck up and stop Revan.
As if you haven't seen these before:
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By the way, 'largest' in this context doesn't refer to size. It's referring to its capacity/potency.
Which is irrelevant when Sheev never uses it in a way more impressive than anything the Dread Masters couldn't do.
That'd be the thread's intent, yes.
Force Storms which aren't nearly as definitive a showing as you'd like to suggest? Here's some irony for you:
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The very basis for Sidious' magnus opum, his greatest power, was none other than Darth Malgus. Malgus being a dead trainee on Korriban next to Tenebrae in terms of mastery over the dark side and its aspects.
You really don't want to be bringing up any nexus right now.
Honestly, that's the only feat I see that you could argue to be definitively beyond Tenebrae. Then again you've got Nihilus, who's Malachor V fleet TK is something that Tenebrae scales above too.
Dread Master tier.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
What makes you think that half ever went to the Void? I'm pretty sure we see it splitting off before Revan explodes.
Show me the evidence that Styrak came back from the Void on his own power, please.
Show me an example of Vitiate's spirit traveling across space without a nexus or other anchor.
Show me evidence that his lightning was busting shielded cruisers and frigates.
I want to see the source you're using here, to make sure you're thinking of what I think you're thinking of.
It's also funny that you'd bring up savant abilities but then try to scale Vitiate above the Dread Masters.
That's not the same thing at all. One is shielding a specific group of people from the view of the Jedi that happen to be present; the other is clouding the entire Jedi Order from long-term precognition in general 24/7, even when they actively try to pierce the shroud. The two feats are on incomprehensibly different scales.
Again, one is a galactic/universal feat, the other spans the surface of a planet. One the Force felt was clearly a far greater threat, given that it spawned the Chosen One. There's no comparison whatsoever.
How does that support your point? The Force freaked out because of Revan's specific actions, not because he meditated on an island for a long time. That doesn't compare to the nature of Sidious's weight in the Force at all.
Even if we assume that every Force sensitive felt this (though that would make you wonder why there wasn't a mass genocide of Jedi, and why the Outlander and co. didn't nearly black out too) and it wasn't specific to those either particularly in tune with the Force or particularly in tune with Vitiate or the mission, that doesn't seem to compare to Sidious's temporary death literally bringing balance to the cosmic Force on a universal scale and fulfilling the Chosen One prophecy.
Heck, even Tenebrous's master has a greater cosmic feat than anything you've mentioned, given that he pierced the light side bubble formed by the entire 10,000 strong Jedi Order by himself, and Tenebrous casually surpassed him as a padawan.
Isn't that an in-universe source?
The more general point is that he and Plagueis were screwing with the source code of the Force to the point where the Force itself was freaking out and saw them as universal threats. The fact that the Force had to actively flee and retaliate against Plagueis's attempted galaxy-wide TP and attempted conception of Anakin suggests that he could have succeeded if it hadn't intervened. This is to say nothing of the observation that Plagueis was able to regenerate from Sidious's full powered Force lightning with no barrier or defenses aside from MM.
Well you brought up escaping from the Void so shrug.
LMFAO - so I guess Darth Anddedu is greater than Palpatine too, because he learned essence transfer from him? In the Plagueis novel, Plagueis mused that Bane's powers were legendary. There's no reason why Sith can't learn from past Sith that were weaker than them. And this obviously isn't the key source of Sidious's force storms, given that Malgus very clearly can't do them.
Anyway, that's an incredibly vague and evasive response to the observed abilities of force storms, aka swallowing entire fleets of capital ships along with a super star destroyer, teleporting fleets across galactic distances, and tearing the surfaces off of worlds.
Do you have an actual reply?
Where have the Dread Masters done that?
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Oct 30th, 2018 at 02:37 PM
When did he do that? Even then he benefited from their ritual(with Plagueis)
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Theron makes it clear that there's an entire army prior to this.
The Dread Masters' union of power comes from their perfection of the Phobis Devices. Yet despite this power, Tenebrae was fully in control of them from the beginning.
Concealing insane amounts of collective dark side power from across the galaxy through sheer force of will, whilst Syo Bakarn and the Order had literally no idea that the First Son was doing this is an incredibly unprecedented feat. We're talking about hundreds of Sith with, at minimum, the power to ragdoll Act II Barsen'thor, who in a deathly state defeated the ancient Sith Lord Vivicar who was draining hundreds of Jedi Masters from across the galaxy.
Though, Tenebrae scales above that shrouding as I'll show you below.
One is only a cosmic feat, one is a living Force feat. Stop trying to call it galactic when the cosmic Force doesn't operate like the living Force. That's not what the imbalance was affecting. What Tenebrae did, was literally absorb all of its existence, warping the reality of the planet itself to rid it of the color spectrum and time.
The Exile states very clearly that Nathema was far worse by an order of magnitude than a 'colossal geyser of dark side energy' spewing out dark side energy across the galaxy. A dark side imbalance that doesn't even come in first place as far as dark side corruption goes doesn't compare. All hail Lord Krayt.
Revan's presence was a cyst in the fabric of the cosmic Force that existed everywhere and nowhere, causing the Force to 'roil and convulse' in reaction to his existence. Shrouding the vision of the Jedi order, was literally what Malak was doing:
SoR Revan is massively more powerful than Darth Malak. His effects on the Force is naturally far graver than merely shrouding the vision of the Jedi Order.
The mental effects don't need to be lethal to be incredibly impressive. Oh and the Outlander and co. did feel its effects as Lana states she doesn't feel his presence in the Force anymore, for the first time ever. Tenebrae's death literally causes the instantaneous implosion of life on planets and sends shock waves across the cosmic Force.
Malak shrouded the vision of the Jedi Order with the dark side. He's small change compared to Revan, and certainly even novel!Tenebrae.
It was written in an in-universe style. However, its accuracy is confirmed on the front cover. It's essentially Avellone spewing facts via Kreia exposition all over again.
And if the Hero of Tython hadn't fulfilled his own prophecy and prevented the Emperor's Ritual Crisis, then Tenebrae absorbs the galaxy and becomes a galaxy-consuming God until everything is gone and he waits reaper-style for the universe to be reborn and the cycle repeats itself.
The Ritual entailed just one mass death event on any one of the planets the Hero goes to. He needs this because he's pouring all of his own energy into fueling the ritual itself, with that bonus death to feed on, he could unleash another shockwave Ziost-style across the galaxy, even absorbing the power of the stars. He could even do this with such accuracy that he could avoid Zakuul. He is also weakened from the Sel-Makor TP battle/death on Voss at this time. He's also still suppressing Vaylin simultaneously.
Way to miss the point.
Sidious took inspiration from Malgus, stating Malgus shows the true key to power is sheer will fueled by hatred. Malgus, who on the same page is shown utilising Force Maelstrom. Something Sheev states is the gateway power to Force Storm. Daniel Wallace confirms this is exactly what he intended. The destructive potential of the Force Storm is due to the technique itself, not the power of the user.
Yeah, Tenebrae is an even stronger one than Sheev is. He's also warping reality as a chaotic nexus.
I'm underselling them because Fulminiss would've done it on a far grander scale with his seeds, which he created of his own power. Not just the planets but the populations; not merely driving them irreversibly insane but actually corrupting the very anatomies of the people on an individual basis. The Dread Masters simply scale way beyond him.
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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
That's certainly arguable, their ability to project their power across the galaxy and fvck around with reactors; whilst simultaneously resurrecting the dead, is pretty insane.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Apr 12th, 2018 12:48 AM
In the Plagueis novel, Plagueis mused that Bane's powers were legendary. There's no reason why Sith can't learn from past Sith that were weaker than them. And this obviously isn't the key source of Sidious's force storms, given that Malgus very clearly can't do them.
