Can Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt's feats be valid during Beyond Shadows?
This is a realm of the Force to which Force-sensitives go when they separate their minds from their physical beings.
Wouldn't that mean they didn't really fight Abeloth physically but rather it was a battle of wills?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
No, because "just a battle of wills" would be a telepathic battle. It's like Yoda said:
“My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
Hence:
It's why when one becomes "One with the Force" their body just disappears. Their Essence gives their body form to begin with. This is clarified here:
Finally:
So actually, the fight was not less real than a physical battle - it was more real than a physical battle.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
So, he kind of left his 'old' body and created another body(plasmatic?), then. Good to know.
Once again you were very helpful.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
The body is a vessel for the spirit. The spirit lives inside the body. As the body grows, the spirit grows. The spirit gives life to the body and allows it to grow, and in response, the spirit takes the form of the body and grows alongside it.
Unlike raw Force energy, which is just blank and devoid of any intelligence or individuality, the spirit has a personality. This personality develops because a human being lives in the physical world, grows, has new experiences, and so on.
The spirit can only be as great as it's vessel. The spirit of a rancor will never become great or do great things because it only has the potential of a rancor. Ki-Adi-Mundi will never be as great as Mace Windu. Luke Skywalker will never be as great as Abeloth.
What happened with Beyond Shadows is sort of like creating "another body", but not quite. Try thinking about it like water and a glass. The body is the glass, the spirit is the water. Without the glass, the water will just spill everywhere. You can't do anything with the water, you can't add or take away from it. There's nothing unique about it.
What Krayt and Luke did is they filled up their glass of water over the course of their life. When they went Beyond Shadows, they poured the water out of their glass, but instead of spilling everywhere, it maintained it's shape. The water retained it's individual form despite being separated from it's glass. This is because the spirit has a will, an intelligence, that can separate itself from the Force. Luke and Krayt retained their identities.
And the reason they were able to pour their water back into the glass, or place their spirits back in their body, was because they left a small part of themselves, a "vestige" inside their bodies. The maintained a connection, and using that connection they were able to go back. It was also because of that connection that Luke's physical body had a hole in it's chest after he went back to it.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Man, why you had to bring Mundi in this? Thanks again for the explanation.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Btw, what they did in BS is similar to a darksider ghost's stage of existence? Is the BS body similar to a Sith ghost body?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
To be honest, it seems the whole story is more of a metaphor.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
I just don't understand why their feats are valid. I mean, even if they are not the Force itself? Didn't they pass in a dimension when they 'physically', power-wise became one with it? I mean that could explain as to why Abeloth wasn't able of legitly killing them.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
What do you mean? Obi-Wan was clearly one with the Force. He said in ESB:
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Force Ghosts aren't really connected to the Living Force much, if at all compared to a Sith Spirit, who are tethered to it directly in order to stay alive. And Krayt and Luke were obviously different from either in a few important respects.
Anyway, not really seeing your point other than personal incredulity.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
I am not incredule. Obi-Wan became one with the Force and still retained his identity. It seems to me that's what they did Beyond Shadows realm.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
If they were just Ghosts, they would be in the Depths of Eternity with all of the dead, like Mara and Jacen. They are living beings who have separated from their bodies in a realm that is comprised of pure Force energy. The same power they were comprised of there is the power that gives their bodies form in the physical world.
It's not rocket science.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Obi-Wan could interact with the living world(touch) so you know.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Obi wan could not interract with the living world.
Force ghosts are just the souls of living things. The force is made of the souls of living things, and the real world is completely separate from that. Some things, midi-chlorians, lightsaber crystals, and certain pieces of technology, can access the realm of the Force and remain in the physical world, thus manipulating the physical world using the energy created by the souls of all living things (The Force)
Now, Obi-Wan did sit on a log, but I don't think he was actually sitting on the log. He no longer had a phyisical presence. The only way he talked to others was by talking to their souls, which exist in the realm of the force. The physical form that we see in the movies is just a representation. He wasn't actually there.
And what Luke and Krayt did is different from being one with the force. To be one with the force is to be one without physicality. Luke and Krayt had their physical forms, they just weren't inside them at that moment.
And ILS. I don't know what you mean about spirits being superior. I don't think any spirit is superior to another. If they're all completely with the Force, then they're about as powerful as anyone can be. They can't manipulate the real world like the The Father, but as far as their connections to the Force goes, they're just as powerful as the Father. Though not as effective.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Can Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt's feats be valid during Beyond Shadows?
Apr 9th, 2018 08:08 PM
