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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Ziost's Drain - Ritual or Not?


Ziost's Drain - Ritual or Not?
Started by: Freedon Nadd

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The Ellimist
The Shadow

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

It should be noted that even if it weren't a ritual (which seems to be mostly a game of burdens of proof) he doesn't just do this on a whim, it takes quite a bit of effort and build-up. (that he appears to go through the most immediate execution quickly doesn't contradict that fact)


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Old Post Apr 12th, 2018 11:59 PM
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Haschwalth
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2017
Location:


 

It's not a Ritual, the text clearly indicates otherwise, Revan's comments during the Novel indicating he didn't need as such, indicate it was his own personal power that did this.

Their is more of a case for than against, with the burden of proof being on you guys to prove it were a ritual.

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 12:09 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
What's the basis for it then


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 12:29 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Also, I feel like everyone overlooks the fact that Ziost was a dark side nexus, so Vitiate was amped.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 12:29 AM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Also, I feel like everyone overlooks the fact that Ziost was a dark side nexus, so Vitiate was amped.

Vitiate wasn't even at full power. no expression


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 12:35 AM
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Haschwalth
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Registered: Jul 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate wasn't even at full power. no expression

^^

Vitiate, preformed the Death field, and after killing all life on the planet from it, he became even more powerful.

And the amusing thing is he did so, while as a Spirit.(Weakened)

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 12:44 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

FYI: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/prof...t-ziost/105050/

Expect an update with important in-game dialogues soon.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 13th, 2018 at 03:44 AM

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 03:31 AM
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The Ellimist
The Shadow

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth the text clearly indicates otherwise,


No, it doesn't. The wording of the text is pretty ambiguous.

quote:
Revan's comments during the Novel indicating he didn't need as such,


No, the most Revan's comments imply is that he can pull it off by himself over an unknown period of time on a dark side nexus - that tells us nothing about whether or not it was a ritual.

At this point it's just a question of which explanation is more plausible given the limited direct evidence we have. It doesn't make sense to say "it looked different from Nathema, so it must not be a ritual" (as though Vitiate only had one possible type of ritual) - the guy does all sorts of rituals on a memetic basis, and given that rituals let you do X with greater ease than through raw power, if a ritual were possible logically the energy/time-constrained Vitiate would use it first. None of this proves things either way, but it does establish a good deal of doubt even in the best case for Vitiate.

Now, regardless of whether it was a ritual or not, it certainly required more prep time and buildup than, say, Palpatine's Force storms, which he generates casually in multiple locations across light-years.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 03:59 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

Eating a planet and generate a Force storm are not the same things, girl.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 04:23 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate wasn't even at full power. no expression


Irrelevant. He would still be amped by the nexus in his weakened state. Whether that puts him above his natural level is not known, which is why the feat is ambiguous - or a ritual, as the codex implies (note, Skillz: I said implies, not that it definitively states that, so no need to jump on my back, kay?).

Or do you finally have some proof that it factually, inarguably, was a product of his own power, like you have been raving for months now? Here, I'll even link the video, so you can timestamp me.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 06:44 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
The Insane Jedi Master

Registered: May 2016
Location: United States


 

Az, you are the one claiming that it was a ritual, it is not our job to prove the negative.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 07:01 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

No, I said it was implied to be a ritual or ambiguous if you're generous to Failk, based on the codex entry that everyone's familiar with (or if not, I can post it when not on mobile). Your posse's the one that's claiming it was of his own power, and I've been asking for proof this entire thread.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 08:09 AM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
No, I said it was implied to be a ritual or ambiguous if you're generous to Failk, based on the codex entry that everyone's familiar with (or if not, I can post it when not on mobile). Your posse's the one that's claiming it was of his own power, and I've been asking for proof this entire thread.


Az, you have misinterpreted that Quote you are referring too.
You are not quite understanding the context of how it was written.

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 08:22 AM
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Freedon Nadd
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Registered: Feb 2015
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He doesn't understand context in general. 👍🏻 🤛🏻


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 08:55 AM
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CuckedCurry

Registered: Jan 2018
Location: The Promised Land


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
He doesn't understand context in general. 👍🏻 🤛🏻


You’re Erkan if Erkan didn’t debate.

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 10:17 AM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
'Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.'

The text pretty clearly seperates Ziost's destruction from those caused by rituals or machines and suggests its the corrosive power of the dark side that caused it instead. At the very least it doesn't indicate a ritual at all.


lol


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 10:41 AM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

Well, Neph is half-right: The text does indeed offer a clear distinction between Ziost and planetary cataclysms of the past.

That distinction is whispered rumors vs. clear displays.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Az, you are the one claiming that it was a ritual, it is not our job to prove the negative.


Technically Ant was the first one in the thread to make an absolute positive claim about this.

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 01:53 PM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

thumb up

And the quote I used as evidence for my claim was posted by Nephtard (was gonna post it myself but why bother when you have unwitting pawns to do it for you?) so as far as this thread goes, I'm clean of any faulty debating tactics.

Instead, the ones whose backs you should be jumping on, DS0, would be your teammates, who've not posted a shred of evidence for their claims.


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Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 02:21 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote:
You’re Erkan if Erkan didn’t debate.


Thank you for the compli(men)t


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 02:41 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
'Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.'


Not sure if it does. In the first sentence it is rumored how planets are snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or dangerous machines. Then, the text tells that Ziost is a clear effect of the Sith ritual.

I mean, don't Sith rituals need the power of the dark side to use them?


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Apr 13th, 2018 02:44 PM
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