I dont think you get it. You're asking me how much Juggernaut weigh not knowing that resistance is a factor which is a reason Superman isnt sent flying when Wonder Woman punch him. Superman is in a weight class that exceeds things like that and this the reason Flash cant punch a Beyonder across space. They are in a weight class that prevent things like that. Flash isnt achieving this. This is the reason Hulk and Red Hulk wasnt sent out of orbit when they were punching each other with planet shaking hits...
Lol what does this have to do with my artwork argument?????????
????????
Go to bed, carver.
I will go through my post point by point, slowly for you.
You said the feat was hyperbole because we can see the flame from the gun etc.
My point was that it was just the artwork. Hulk's pants don't disintegrate, they are always drawn, we do NOT negate his showings just because the artists draw his pants.
Therefore, we shouldn't negate this feat just because of the artwork.
And then you start off on another tangent AGAIN, hoping no one catches you out.
Btw, with regards to Superman and being punched:
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He can stop himself from flying off, because he has flight.
The White Martian also has flight. Didn't stop him.
And Juggy has.....no flight. He has PLENTY of durability. He wouldn't be KOed. He WOULDN'T EVEN BE SCRACTCHED.
But he would be in Africa. And has no way of coming home.
This is what I am talking about. Our argument is straying away from this sentence it seems. I guess you conceded this argument. Let's move on to your hyperbole statement.
This is the scene you posted. This is the slowest attosecond I've seen in my life. He goes faster than he have since Pa and the lady still reacts. We see the bullet still in the chamber with no fire around it. When Superman gets there, the bullets left the barrel already with fire around it. This wouldnt even happen if someone was achieving nano second speeds, let alone attosecond. Stop.
Says it there, clear as day. You want to argue about it, sure. Let's BZ it.
You will argue using logic and science, how that cannot possibly be an attosecond because of XYZ (you can insert your arguements). Therefore, it is hyperbole (despite us clearly seeing the effects, and comics supporting this).
I will argue using logic and science, how random mutations in your DNA code cannot possibly give you control of the weather, or the EM spectrum, or of reality, because of XYZ (I will insert arguments later). Therefore, the entire concept of the X-men is hyperbole (despite us clearly seeing the effects, and comics supporting this).
You, of all people, are using artwork to support your arguments. Shall I argue that this scan: https://imgur.com/a/5uAkN
Shows Hulk resisting a reality warping attack - but his shorts are still there! So that's all hyperbole?
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Last edited by DarkSaint85 on May 7th, 2018 at 10:50 AM
At the end of the day buddy, I enjoy statements because Hulk is full of them. So I'm guessing since you're accepting that statement, you'll accept this one as well?
Hulk, who can juggle a sun is powerful enough to take on a being capable of killing the entire Celestial race. Tony states that part of him knows that calling in the big boys, using his 25000 ft alien isnt enough to stop the Hulk. NOTHING WILL.
This is why you're the most weaselly hypocritical poster on this site.
Carver: look at this statement saying the Hulk is the bestest!
Poster: look at this statement saying Superman is fast!
Carver: No, hyperbole, look at the art.
Poster: Well....your statement also has differing art from the statement. You seem to accept that just fine.
Carver: LOOK AT THESE HULK STATEMENTS! HUH?? HUH???? ACCEPT THEM!
Look, carver, I think maybe you're...just not that bright? You are making my entire point for me.
You accept statements when it suits you. OK. Then if you do, then you have to accept the Superman attosecond feat. If you don't, 'because of the art', then hey, all of Hulk's feats are thrown out 'because of his drawn pants'.
You obviously accept the Hulk feats. So why not Superman's feats?
As for your other post:
You seem content literally a few days ago to enter into A BZ. Different topic, I know, but your so-called aversion to BZs seems to be pretty fluid.
Hulk pants, Superman suit, Wonder Woman top, Ironman armor getting blown off of him except his bottom, Wolverine clothing getting blasted off of him except for his bottom, this happens because comics cant have penises and breast showing throughout their comics. Kids does read these things. Other companies probably doesn't care but Disney does. Arguments like this is considered hiding. I think at this point we need to agree to disagree because this isnt going anywhere.
I dont know how that argument is helping you by the way. I tend to argue a lot for the Hulk, I have even mentioned this ft before in the ownage thread along with Hulk being compared to the Phoenix force. Everyone knows statements isnt always legit and I sure as hell wouldnt give Hulk a win against a Celestial killer or the Phoenix Force. Fancy statements my friend but I see it like this. If we can accept one statement, why not accept them all? Get what I'm saying? This is called being fair.
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On ignore list: Darksaint and Stilt
Last edited by carver9 on May 7th, 2018 at 12:03 PM
Rating this fight in terms of how it is likely to be portrayed in a comic, the Xmen appear to have have a raw power edge at first glance.
Classic Juggernaut
God Cable
Exodus
Magneto (classic)
Xman
Are all elite-top tier level powerhouses. That's 5 for the Xmen.
The JLA only has 4:
Superman
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Green Lantern
However, this is somewhat evened out by the fact that Flash and Aquaman are both much more formidable than Storm.
The key factors seem to be:
1) Juggernaut: Just how invulnerable will he be portrayed as?
2) Superman: How much higher than elite top tier level will the writer let Superman ascend to, if at all, when or if he starts dropping the gloves?
3) Hal Jordan: What level will Hal be portrayed at? I'd say that over the last 15 years, GLs--even the elite ones--have seemed to drop in stock slowly but steadily, and often seemed to be borderline elite top tier at best. However, right now Hal is kicking serious ass in the GL books and has been for a while. They have even explained his superior performance explicitly. However, the key test of a powerup becoming accepted is for it to start showing up in other books than their own. Thus far, I haven't seen much evidence for more formidable GLs, or a more formidable Hal, in other DC books.
In general, I think this will follow typical comic book conventions. Certain power types tend to be unrealistically prioritized over others (strength over speed, etc.), and power set matchup-based advantages that should result in easy, one-sided wins will not be exploited at all, or will at best be allowed to provide a minor edge. I doubt speed nor TP would be allowed to decide the match. Comic fights are biased towards raw, tangible power: strength, durability, raw energy blasts, etc. over more realistic but exotic power uses.
In the above vein, Flash would likely perform as the high mid-tier that he normally is shown to be as. Aquaman would be in the same category, though he is much more formidable than he used to be.
I'm on the fence as to which side I would choose. The Xmen may have a bit more raw power, unless Superman gets frisky; but the Superman factor is somewhat balanced by the fact that Juggernaut could be written as truly invulnerable, and BFR is not always used right away. In fact, BFR isn't used that often in comics, despite it typically being a very effective tactic. However, a truly-invulnerable Juggernaut tends to force a writers hand at some point on this score, resulting in a much greater chance BFR will be used against him.
In the end, I might still lean JLA because of teamwork, experience, grit and a higher ceiling. Superman is very dynamic in power. GLs also seem to be innately dynamic given their power is based on will, which can fluctuate and spike more than physical muscles can. Additionally, the Flash often plays out of his typical mid-tier level and plays with and defeats the big boys. Finally, Aquaman has gotten a lot of push over the last few years and with his Trident, is also able to throw down with the big boys from time to time.
Non the abovementioned increased or higher performance levels are necessarily the norm for those characters, but they are all fairly frequent occurrences.
A massively faster character with a sword that cuts Darkseid beating a slowpoke who she can just stab in the eyes? Yeah, that's hard to wrap around.
Hal can simply make a construct separating Thor from Mjolnir, and blast him into pieces, or pierce him, or make constructs inside of his body etc.
A massively faster than light feat.
I can look at jets flying overhead at supersonic speeds, too. I couldn't dodge a bullet [or a punch] coming in that fast from a few hundred feet away. Tracking something from far away, and reacting to it attacking you are two very different things.
What is this shit? What's next, Firestorm is the fastest being in comics by transmutating trillions of trillions of atoms?
How much do you wanna bet that my calculations are better than yours?
Would you bet a self-ban on it?
I don't think you understand the difference between acceleration/flight speed, and actual perception time.
Flight and superspeed/perception are two different things.
I assume you're familiar with Green Lanterns, no?
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This man is a genius. People forgot about telepathy which is the reason I kept saying LOOK AGAIN. That's the main factor here and they are fighting some of the best telepathies in comics. Wouldn't say a stomp but it does play a HUGE factor in this fight.
They are fighting against beings that can use telepathy and battle at their prime at the same time. That's a dangerous combo because you'll primarily defending against telepathy while getting attacked by elite power, all at the same time.
You know what? Speed of thought is 30m/s. It's an ACTUAL forum rule:
That's human speed of thought.
Now, just ASSUMING that we are going to bring science and logic into this. Let's assume for an attosecond (lol) that we are going to sit down and analyse things like gun speeds and bullet speeds and when exactly one sees a muzzle flash (lol).
Let's ignore what's been shown on panel (lol). Let's ignore all of that, and say hey, bullets don't work like that in real life, it must be a back to the future bullet (lol).
After ALL that....we are left with some humans with human level 30 meters per second thought impulses....
And the Flash.
And WW, who has entered the SF on her own and has blitzed opponents who Superman couldn't etc etc, with a super sharp sword and super sharp skills.
And Superman, who, whilst no WW in reflexes, is FASTER than her in raw speed.
And Aquaman, who can leap 10,000 feat per second (through water, which, as we all know, is denser and harder to move through than air). That's 3,048 meters per second, btw. So 100 times faster than the nerve impulses in the X-men.
ASSUMING we ignore what's been shown on panel, and let's just use science and logic. Slowest attosecond I've ever seen in my life, says the Carver.
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Last edited by DarkSaint85 on May 7th, 2018 at 02:02 PM
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