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Agent Smith...the answer?
Started by: FLIPMODE

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FLIPMODE
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Agent Smith...the answer?

Ever Wonder Why Neo did'nt just kill all the Agent Smith's in Reloaded?

But Neo DID, kill Programs. but not agents, this time around.

Well Agents are people. Actual People enslaved in the Matrix. The Very People He and Morpheus are trying to Save. If you kill an agent, you'll see the body of the over taken human, remains. While the same agent will them remorph into the closest human body, as a host.

Think about this. If Smith acutually DOES copy himself from EVERYONE, where the entire earth is an Agent Smith. Then that means he Represents every LIFE or slave in the Matrix. Um This guy is the Answer. 2 Things come to mind from this situation:

1-He probably has the Power to free everyone from the Matrix HIMSELF!

2-OOORRR, in the same vein. The Machines made this program to Perfect, "Free Will" IF INFACT, Smith, (Stemming from his absorbtion of Neo and Vice versa) can inhabit EVERY SINGLE LIFE FORM, PLUS, Smith IS INFACT, excersizing FREE WILL, Then It can be assumed that this IS the End Result the Machines Wanted. They have now ACCOMPLISHED free will within SMITH...ALAS he is STILL PART of the Matrix, and they can thus Control him, and consequently Smith Now controls the lives of EVERY being on earth. Their Minds anyway.

So From that, I can see part 3 being about, the final battle, Smith Flying around..blah blah, and ofcourse, to give the hero props to Neo, instead of Smith. They'll have NEO...take Smiths ability to Copy himself, and NEO will represent Every life within the Matrix, Freeing their Minds, in exchange for his. The Matrix will Die.

Old Post Jun 8th, 2003 05:12 AM
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Ushgarak
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No, he kills them when he does his thing. He overwrites their mind.


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Old Post Jun 8th, 2003 12:06 PM
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Stovenutts
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hey uve seen the trailer for revolutions where neo an smith are about to fight in the rain there are thousands of smiths lined up on the sides, more than neo fought in the "burly brawl". maybe this is because smith has been taking everybody over. prolly not though


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Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 04:03 AM
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neo-generate
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but if smith took over everybody inside the matrix, that would be an oxymoron. well we know two things: 1. the machines need humans to survive. 2. everyone inside the matrix is keeping it alive. but if smith "the machines" took over every living mind inside the matrix, then technically, it would be machines feeding machines, correct or am i wrong? some one help me if i am, but it sounds pretty reasonable if u think about it. also have u ever thought about smiths programming? what is he? my view is that he's [SPOILER - highlight to read]: a VIRUS! but there may be other views out there. i would be glad to share them with u. it helps me understand! lol!!


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Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 02:40 PM
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Kes
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He sure acts like one!


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Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 04:07 PM
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PoleDAWG
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Smith taking over everyone is an interesting idea, especially if his taking over someone in the matrix kills the person connected to the matrix. Remember that Bane is not dead even though Smith overtook him in the matrix, however his brain seems to be reprogrammed. Assuming that is what happens to all the Smiths and the matrix cannot control Smith, Revolution could go something like this...

- smith is taking over all the bodies in the matrix
- this is bad for the matrix and the machines that depend on the bodies because they will all know the truth
- neo has to fight with the machines help against smith(s)...this would support the conversation with the councilman that machines and man need each other and must work together

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 04:23 PM
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The Serpent
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In the first Matrix movie the Agents could take physical and mental control of any person connected to the Matrix.

So why didn’t the machines just have an agent program take over EVERY LIVING SOUL on day one and thus solve the problem of people rejecting the Matrix once and for all time?

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 08:22 PM
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Ushgarak
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I assume that for the same reason they need sentient humans rather than just comatose slabs of flesh, the humans whilst 'possessed' by agents are useless for the Machine's needs.


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Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 08:24 PM
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The Serpent
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quote:
I assume that for the same reason they need sentient humans rather than just comatose slabs of flesh, the humans whilst 'possessed' by agents are useless for the Machine's needs.


I thought the only purpose of the Humans as far as the machines were concerned was to “make-energy” (coppertop)?

Why wouldn’t the “humans” still produce energy even while controlled by agents?

The agents could control when they ate, they could control when they reproduced. Seems like it would solve the whole problem … unless there’s more than one Matrix …

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 08:42 PM
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Ushgarak
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But as I said, the machines need to use SENTIENT humans, not just comatose slabs of flesh (else the false consciousness of the Matrix would not be needed at all, everyone would just be kept sedated).

The logic of WHY they need them sentient can be discussed for hours and indeed already has been. But regardless it appears to be a fact. If it is important that the human is sentient for the process to work it therefore follows that whilst their sentience has been displaced by an agent they do not 'work', so to speak.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 08:46 PM
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The Serpent
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quote:
But as I said, the machines need to use SENTIENT humans …


Where are you getting this from? This is certainly never stated in the films, all the movies say is that the machines realized that human bodies generated a lot of heat-energy and they could use this heat-energy as an alternative power source.

quote:
… not just comatose slabs of flesh (else the false consciousness of the Matrix would not be needed at all, everyone would just be kept sedated).


Are you suggesting that a comatose body produces less heat-energy than a non-comatose body?

Being as that everyone is strapped into tiny little pods and they are ALL essentially comatose to begin with the film seems to directly contradict your point.

quote:
The logic of WHY they need them sentient can be discussed for hours and indeed already has been. But regardless it appears to be a fact.


No, it appears to be a contradiction, but whether or not it is a contradiction depends on where the final movie takes us.

quote:
If it is important that the human is sentient for the process to work it therefore follows that whilst their sentience has been displaced by an agent they do not 'work', so to speak.


So, if you are claiming that (according to the films) sentience is required to produce energy, are you implying that the machines are NOT sentient?

If they are not, then what exactly does “sentient” mean?

If they are sentient, then why do they need sentient humans to produce energy? Couldn’t they do it on their own without the humans?

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 09:09 PM
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Ushgarak
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Well, to take it one point at a time...

No, it is never said at any point in the film that they neerd sentient humans. By splitting my sentence up you do me a disfavour, though. I was also not stating that comatose humans produce less heat.

When the point was raised earlier in this area 'why bother with the Matrix when you could just keep them all sedated' then the conclusion was reached that, for whatever reason we do not understand, the process via which they take power from us only works if we are sentient (and when I say 'comatose' in this case I specifically mean no higher brain activity at all- whilst in the Matrix this higher brain activity still exists). Many people came up with possible theories about bio-chemcial energy and so on, why being 'awake; (even if only in a dream world) makes a difference... I do not pretend to have any definitive answer here. But I simply accept it as a fact that for 'whatever weird sci-fi reason', as I said in my post above, they need us sentient.

Now, myself having accepted this explanation, it is also my belief thast when agents inhabit a body they disrupt whatever it is that needed in this true sentience for the process to work properly. So therefore they could not have Agents inhabiting everyone.

Of course, if you do not believe this assumption then that really will not work for you, but that is the explanation I would offer.

I personally, therefore, do not see it as a contradiction, I just see it as one of the set-ups of the film, and suspension of disbelief takes me past any problems it causes for the sake of this set-up.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 09:17 PM
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The Serpent
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An even simpler explanation that avoids the contradictions much better is that there is no difference between "programs" and "humans", and that Zion is just another layer of the Matrix.

Fortunately our speculations will not last long as come November we'll see which of us was closer to the W. brother's version of Truth.

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 09:22 PM
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Ushgarak
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Ah, well, but it is my belief that Zion being a layer of the Matrix in itself raises complicated objections that destroy it as a more simple answer. Still, as you say, we shall see.

Mind you, I am not ruling anything out. Take a poll oin whether Zion is a layer of the Matrix or not and I would not immediately vote no. I believe it is not but I have no definitive proof.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 09:25 PM
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The Omega
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The Matrix only works as long as the pod-humans accept/chose it on a subconscious level. The agents can move in and out of everyone still hooked up, but probably not for too long at a time or it’ll destroy the pod-human in question. The agents are there to keep the 1 % of non-accepting humans in check. They’re a necessity. Giving every pod-human their own “agent” would be over-ruling the choice-factor.

We don’t know yet what happens to the sleeping humans that Smith infects with his virus program. We’ve seen it on agents and rebels (aka Bane). Presumably the pods-humans infected by Smith might cause another kind of system crash.

And to answer the question: Why is that so? : “Advertising, the right to chose.” There is no real choice, it only looks that way. It is an illusion.


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Old Post Jun 9th, 2003 11:17 PM
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FLIPMODE
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" Giving every pod-human their own “agent” would be over-ruling the choice-factor."


And that's EXACTLY part of my original point. If every Pod-human is controlled by the new Agent Smith...Then the choice factor/Free Will Is STILL available to them, as SMITH is now excersizing free will.

And still being a part of the Matrix at the same time, the machines will let him exist, and continue to use humans as Batteries.

Infact if this Cycle has gone on 6 times, it makes me think that NEO is not the Test Subject, but Agent Smith is. The machines need the info to controll free will, Neo gave the info up, probably in the manner he killed Smith in part 1. The info is allready downloaded.

If this is the 6th version of Neo, then this MUST be the 6th version of Smith. All the architect did was monitor Neo, to make sure they keep tabs on the One, in order to assimilate his info, after he learns the truth.

Which brings me back to, the fact that Neo is not a Program. But Smith is. If Neo was a Program, they're Job would have ALLREADY been complete, by the 1st "The One". The Whole point of their research seems to be to, obtain the full power of the anomaly into one of Their OWN, Smith. Once smith is aware that he TOO is "The One" on the side of the Machines,... whether he likes it or not, There's no Need for Neo.

And the answer for Free will for them is solved, And the Matrix will be glitch free for them.

Old Post Jun 10th, 2003 04:21 PM
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FLIPMODE
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Well until Neo stops it ofcourse.

5 Bucks says Neo Copies himslef. And takes over every Smith on Earth.

Old Post Jun 11th, 2003 03:48 PM
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Sifer

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If you want to know why they need sentient human bodies, then watch the Animatrix - The 2nd Renaissance Parts I & II.

Actually, watch them all because they are all amazing.


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Old Post Jun 11th, 2003 10:33 PM
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Ushgarak
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Really, it is patantly ridiculous to believe the Matrix will still function if Smith overwrites everyone. It would collapse. Whatever process he was going through would not be remotely like the subconscious process of the enslaved humans.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Jun 11th, 2003 at 10:52 PM

Old Post Jun 11th, 2003 10:36 PM
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FLIPMODE
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What? Why not? Think about it, the Bodies are still functional, with a functional mind, It's not like he's killing the Humans. He's just using their Matrix-Body. The Real Human does'nt just die.

So there's no reason why the Matrix will not function.

Old Post Jun 13th, 2003 07:52 PM
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