Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Logic and common sense but you don’t really give a shit about Star Wars. You already admitted it so to you this holds no weight. I wish you cared a little bit.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Well it’s pretty clear due to Snoke’s complete and utter domination of Rey whose force power terrified Luke friggin’ Skywalker. That’s no small feat by any stretch and he also had confirmed knowledge of the force Sidious didn’t have access too when you add all of this up it’s clear he’s the strongest with the force we have ever seen with Luke at number two. I’m sure deep down if you actually gave a damn about fantasy you’d agree with me.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
She isn’t a panda wan and she put Luke on his ass. He was terrified of her power level. I’m using facts you’re just being your typical crybaby self. I told you Snoke would be more impressive than Luke you sickening fanboy. I’m always right.
None, though? I can see you being skepticle, but I mean, he's been the "big bad" for these two movies for a reason.
He had knowledge that Palpatine was after, learned from masters who had knowledge that was lost to all but the people who first discovered the Force, he survived in the unknown regions (where no one survives) for two hundred years, and he fought off threats which, in thrawn's opinion, made the empire look good. Threats which could devastate imperial technology, even under the leadership of Thrawn, Gallius Rax, and Rae Sloane. Not mention they had outposts and were following a plan masterminded by Palpatine.
He managed to turn Luke Skywalker of all people into a self-abasing, cynical runaway for thirty years, he completely dominated Rey, who we know was as powerful as Kylo Ren, and he managed to create a force bond between Kylo and Rey so powerful that it caused matter to transport - something even Luke coulnd't accomplish.
He was stated by the people working behind the movies to be very powerful. And it's Disney, so we know they just think more means better, so it makes sense that he'd be more powerful than our last big bad, Palpatine, who was the most powerful before.
So, yeah, i'd say there's plenty of evidence to suggest that he's the most powerful person in the new canon.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Your opinion contradicted by canon. You really shouldn’t even watch Star Wars anymore at this point. So it makes Luke look even worse by your silly opinion and she did have training by Luke you idiotic tool.
Perhaps that makes him the most powerful force-user of his era... But the most powerful force-user in all of canon? No.
By virtue of living in the Unknown Regions for so long, Snoke had evidently learned "truths" about the force that Palpatine sought(but never discovered) prior to his death. This doesn't necessarily imply that Snoke's *overall* knowledge exceeded Palpatine's, however -- just implies that he possessed a few nuggets of information that Palpatine wanted.
I beg to differ. There are evidently quite a few civilizations that can survive in the Unknown Regions just fine -- the Chiss are one of them.
First off, we don't know if the threats Snoke saved the Imperial remnants from are the same threats that Thrawn referenced to Palpatine. Thrawn stated that there were a multitude threats lurking there, after all.
Secondly, where are you getting this "fought off" thing from? All that was stated is that Snoke's knowledge saved the Imperial remnants from obliteration in the Unknown Regions... That could mean something as simple as guiding them to safety via stable hyperspace routes for all we know. /shrug
By turning Ben against him, thereby breaking Luke emotionally... Certainly not through raw power.
Rey has massive potential, but she had only received a few days of "training"(and I use that term very loosely) from Luke by the time she encountered Snoke. I certainly wouldn't regard him 'dominating' her as some sort of ridiculously uber feat that skyrockets Snoke to the top of the totem pole. Potential doesn't count for much when it is primarily untapped.
Indeed Snoke's psionic abilities were impressive. Does that make him the most powerful force-user in canon by proxy, though? No.
Cool, but there's a big discrepancy between "very powerful" and "the most powerful ever in canon". I agree with the former, but the latter is another story entirely...
Maybe in time he'll rise to that level. As of right now, however, Sheev still holds that title decisively.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
She had a total of 3 lessons from Luke. Only 1 of them involved reaching out through the Force. Whoop! Seriously TCW Ahsoka would be Reys teacher without a doubt.
Try paying more attention to the film you claim to be the best SW movie
Last edited by Darth Thor on Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:28 PM
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Sorry but this has already been addressed and your ignorance(you don’t care about this sort of stuff so I can’t fathom the reason you still post about topics that you’re apathetic towards) isn’t a legitimate excuse around the obvious. It’s already been stated.
“Andy Serkis says that his Star Wars character, Supreme Leader Snoke, is more powerful than both Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine, aka Darth Sidious.”
No, Sheev has never been the most powerful force user in canon. He was Yoda’s equal in the force and he himself fully admitted Vader would rise to power both greater than his and Yoda’s. Alas that never came to pass because of Mustafar so you get the gist.
Snoke showed superiority over raw strength Rey exhibited that caused Luke Skywalker to fear. Snoke ha already proven he is the greatest force power in the Star Wars mythos but let’s face it Luke was already more powerful than Sidious who at his best was Yoda’s equal.
Andy Serkis wouldn’t lie, kid who doesn’t really even like Star Wars.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
So? Luke didn’t have really extensive training from Yoda and look what he rose to. He handily crushed Darth Vader the overrated.
Not all people learn at the same rate. You really are quite bad at this and she managed to put Luke Skywalker on his ass with her skills. I did she was quite impressive according to Luke the guy you claimed would be all over Snoke. The dude just wanted to die while others suffered across the galaxy. Your great hero.
The chiss didn't survive INSIDE the unknown regions in the new canon, they survived near them.
IIRC, Snoke said he was a great warrior fighting off threats in the unknown regions, and if he's been there for 200-ish years, I imagine he would have encountered everything that they have to offer. And it's really stretching to say that the threats thrawn mentioned are different from the threats Snoke fought, and when Thrawn referred to his threats in the plural, he didn't mean there were different TYPES of threats, he meant, like, there's many of the one type of threat.
Snoke broke Luke through telepathy. Luke wouldn't just give up because he failed Ben. In fact, we see that Luke doesn't truly believe that at the end of the film. In his heart of hearts, he doesn't want to die, he doesn't want the jedi to end, he doesn't want any of this. It's an illusion set in his mind by Snoke. You were the one who showed me the passage of the Last Jedi novelization which states this.
And Rey is just as powerful as Kylo, who, might I mention, destroyed the entire beginnings of the new jedi order almost single handedly. Rey was equally matched with him when they tried to pull the lightsaber to themselves, and when Rey's force potential was unlocked by Kylo when he was mind-probing her, she became visibly powerful. She then lifted all those rocks effortlessly at the end of TLJ. So, yeah, she's kind of powerful.
The Chiss Ascendancy resides within the Unknown Regions:
ie. as Thrawn was helping Palpatine map the Unknown Regions, he intentionally kept the location(s) of all Chiss worldS/baseS within the UR secret... Which tells us they not only lived in the UR, but flourished there(hence why Thrawn knew so much about its inner-workings.)
Unfortunately, what you 'imagine' doesn't equate to incontrovertible fact. The novelization explicitly states that it was Snoke's knowledge(not raw power) that saved the Imperial remnants from the terrors in the Unknown Regions:
Incorrect.
Thrawn was clearly referring to numerous threatS(plural) lurking within the UR:
You're twisting the text a bit. It's not like Snoke straight-up mindphucked Luke or w/e. The passage reads as Snoke essentially manipulating those around Luke like chess pieces in order to emotionally break Luke himself and force him into a self-imposed exile(thereby removing him from play):
It was Rey's 'vigor'(and then his chat with Yoda) that ultimately pulled Luke out of said exile and back into the fray.
Eh, should I be impressed that Kylo killed a few unnamed/fodder/featless Padawan-level students?
Do you think Anakin chopping down a room full of Jedi Temple Younglings qualifies as a noteworthy display of power as well?
Indeed Rey has massive potential(why are you acting like I said otherwise..?) However, she was only just beginning to tap some of that potential when she encountered Snoke(which makes sense given that she'd only received a couple days-worth of subpar 'training' from Luke beforehand.) But again- potential doesn't count for much when it is primarily untapped.
Also, here's what Jason Fry(the guy who WROTE the TLJ novelization) thinks about the Palpatine/Snoke dynamic:
Just saying...
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 9th, 2018 at 09:34 PM
Okay, you're right. But the reason Thrawn contacted Palpatine was because he knew there were threats in the unknown regions the Chiss ascendency was incapable of dealing with.
Ahch-To was also in the unknwon regions, so we know there are safe places there, just not where the bad thigns are. So Snoke being able to survive the bad things is a pretty big deal.
What I was referring to was the sources which stated he was a warlord and had masters who taught him how to fight the threats in the unknown regions.
In fact, this is my strongest arguing point. He defenitely fought threats in the unknown regions with his arcane knowledge of the force. Now if you want to make things up around it, like, "oh, maybe they weren't the same threats we're being warned about," or "maybe he didn't actually have the power to fight them, but just the knowledge!", then that's consistent with logic, but there's really no reason to believe it.
That is a valid interpretation of the quote, but doesn't it seem like they're using the world "knowledge" as a stand-in for "force abilities" when talking about Snoke?
How do you know how powerful they were?
You say Rey's potential is untapped, fantastic, it is, but you can't deny she's powerful. We know this from her feats.
You're putting more importance to your sense of logic and speculation than you are to authorial intent. Yeah the few days of training with Luke SHOULDN'T have made her very powerful, but Johnson seems to think it should have, so that should take precendence.
I think he was talking about political power.
The main thing that I'm looking for is, what do we know FOR SURE about Snoke? And from the quotes by the creators and actors as well as the information we've been presented, it seems they want Snoke to be the most powerful person there ever was.
The reason Thrawn originally contacted the Empire was to see if it could be used as a potential ally against some of the threats in the Unknown Regions, or if it was best for the Chiss to collapse the Empire into an easy prey for said threats to pounce on while the Ascendancy regrouped and came up with a different strategy.
...But that's neither here nor there. My point was simply that there are several civilizations that prosper in the UR just fine -- the Chiss are merely one of them.
What I'm talking about is the canon quote from the canon novel that states it was Snoke's knowledge(not raw, and/or military power) that saved the Imperial remnants from the terrors in the Unknown Regions.
Source stating that Snoke threw fisticuffs with the threats in the Unknown Regions..? Because that completely contradicts the novelization.
I'm simply giving you a likely possibility, lol. Thrawn explicitly stated there were numerous threats within the UR. Since none of these threats have been named at this time, we have absolutely NO idea if those Snoke saved the Imperial remnants from are the same ones that Thrawn was referring to... It was years later, after all. /shrug
And as I mentioned earlier: the "knowledge" that Snoke used to save the Imperial remnants could have been something as simple as guiding them to a stable hyperspace route through the UR, and away from said threats... We don't know one way or the other at this point.
Not at all.
Given the context of that excerpt, 'knowledge' and 'power' are not meant to be interchangeable/synonymous.
How do you?
That said, I've seen FAR more fodder Padawans in the franchise than I've seen legitimately powerful ones... So there is that precedent. /shrug
Is Rey powerful relative to the amount of 'training' she's had? Sure. Would she pose a legitimate challenge to most noteworthy Jedi/Sith in the mythos as of TLJ? No, definitely not.
Apropos, Snoke dominating her doesn't equate to some 'teh uber' showing that automatically makes him the most powerful being ever in canon.
Let me put it another way: absolutely nothing in the film or novel suggests that Luke's 'training' bolstered Rey's powers to any significant extent.
Your speculations about her power =/= fact. Unrealized potential is irrelevant here.
That's not how his statement reads at all.
No irrefutably canon sources glean this conclusion, though.
You're more than welcome to believe this if you so choose. I'm just telling you what we *actually* know about Snoke's power "FOR SURE", without inserting my personal conjecture in the mix.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 10th, 2018 at 03:03 AM
Jun 8th, 2018 10:36 PM
