Fine, but Snoke didn't live that life of peace. He was a warlord.
Yes, because you assumed that that's what I was referring to. My point was that if he was a warlord, and if he had masters who taught him how to fight, and he was more powerful than Luke Skywalker, and he has all those scars, then there's strong hints that he fought the terrors in the unknown regions.
What was that quote about Snoke defeating legions of enemies in the unknown regions?
If that's the logic that makes sense to you, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
I mean, he was powerful enough to contact JUST Palpatine and the Acolytes of the Beyond from the unknown regions, in such a way that Vader thought Palpatine was going crazy. And then there's the fact that Sidious felt the very SOURCE of the dark side to be in the unknown regions, and Snoke knew all about it. So that knowledge likely IS of the Force.
Then again, for ONE padawan to take out an entire camp of padawans has to be at least a little impressive, doesn't it?
Well, the writers and actors seem to think she's just as, if not more powerful than, the jedi we saw in the prequel trilogy.
Not her understanding that the force is not about lifting rocks, and actually gaining a strong connection to it? Not her being able to lift all those boulders at the end of the film? Not her going into that hole and discovering herself? Nothing? Nothing at all?
We might have to agree to disagree again, because to me, that's precisely how the statement reads.
you're leaving things out, though. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Snoke is one of, if not THE, most powerful entity we've seen so far. Writers and actors all seem to think this and he has accomplishments as a telepath? What about all of his hype as being this knowledgable, powerful creature from the unknown regions, themselves a point of space where great power and mystery lies?
He just quoted the author of TLJ to you saying the opposite.
Honestly the desire from some Trolls for Snoke to be the biggest baddest thing evever is laughable. He literally did NOTHING. NO significant on screen feats At All.
Just ragdolling a Padawan Whoop!
I would have loved to have seen you all new Snoke fanboys lined up watching TLJ for the first time, to watch how stupidly and ridiculously he gets taken out by his Apprentice.
I don't love Snoke. I don't even like him. He's a terrible villain. I don't have any bias for him. But you can't deny that he's meant to be the big bad.
I think it's pretty telling that he has actually done nothing to be held above Palpatine. He's faced unknown threats in an unknown way in an unknown place? Sign me up on the Snoke train
Again, I'm talking about what we actually *know* about the character... Not how powerful you *think* he is.
You're contorting the context a bit. Here is the excerpt in question:
Why on earth does killing a bunch of people(via completely unknown means) make him the most powerful force-user of all time..? Especially when underestimating Kylo Ren is exactly what ultimately cost Snoke his life...
But as I said: the novel explicitly states that Snoke's knowledge(not power) is what saved the Imperial remnants from the terrors in the UR. Period.
Eh, has it actually been confirmed that it was Snoke who Palpatine was sensing in the Unknown Regions during the Aftermath Trilogy, or is this just more conjecture?
Yes, Snoke had evidently discovered "truths" about the force that Palpatine sought(but never discovered) prior to his death. But again: this doesn't necessarily imply that Snoke's *overall* knowledge exceeded Palpatine's -- just implies that he possessed a few nuggets of information that Palpatine wanted.
Not really. I mean, Kylo himself was obviously Luke's top student, and he hasn't really impressed me much at all(he's another that would get utterly raped by most noteworthy Jedi/Sith), so meh...
Also keep in mind that the handful of students who followed Kylo likely aided him in the slaughter. Very doubtful that he did it all solo.
That doesn't hold much weight at all.
Just because the actors play a character in the films doesn't give them the power/authority to canonize their opinions within the franchise.
Again, Rey is powerful relative to the amount of training she's had. She is still a complete n00b, however, and very much a work in progress... Owning her as easily as Snoke did was cool and all, but it certainly doesn't equate to the #uber feat you're trying to make it.
You should look at it again, then, because that's exactly how it reads.
Yes, Snoke's psionic abilities are impressive(I have never said otherwise.) Does that automatically slingshot him to the top of the force-totem-pole, though? No, it certainly does not.
*And you reeeally don't want to turn this into an 'accolade war' between Snoke and Palpatine...
Anywho, perhaps at some point in the distant future Snoke will be legitimately confirmed as the most powerful force-user to ever exist in canon. I'm just saying that as of right now, absolutely nothing of substance supports that assertion.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 10th, 2018 at 05:52 PM
I don't know if you're deliberately trying to disconnect the pieces every time I put them together or if you just don't understand my arguement, but what we know about Snoke is that he knew things about the force (not space travel routes, that goes to the attendants) that palpatine was after, that were the very source of the dark side, and that allowed him to save the imperial remnants from the threats of the unknown regions. He's also more powerful than Luke, who is past his prime, but can still do the whole force projection thing, so that should make him at least comparable to Vader.
And I'm curious to see why you don't think his accomplishments as a telepath show that he's powerful in the force, because to me, if someone does something which is superior to what we've seen others do, it makes them more powerful than that other person.
Now I know there's no way to prove that it was his force powers that he used to kill his enemies, or screw over Luke, or save the imperial remnants, or fight the threats in the unknown regions. But when you have a character that is stated by word of God to be very powerful in the force, and is shown as a very powerful user onscreen, then what else could the conclusion be?
He was indeed the thing that called to Palpatine from the unknown regions. It's not confirmed, but the information is there for a reason. We're meant to be connecting these threads.
What makes you think that? The creators seem to think that these people are just as powerful as any other jedi. Luke even says "I've only seen this power once before" or something.
I don't know what makes you say that. From canon sources, her rock-lifting feat is one of the better ones.
Let's look at it, then:
Now, this could mean that Snoke was the most powerful being in the galaxy and he would know of everything, as he knew of the rise and fall of the empire.
It could mean that The Emperor was literally the Emperor of the entire galaxy, thereby the most famous person in the galaxy. And the Chiss knew about him, so it would make sense that Snoke would also know about him.
And finally, it could mean that Palpatine was the most powerful force user in the galaxy, so his dark side energies were detected by Snoke.
The 2nd one seems BY FAR the most likely to me.
See now, this is what confirms my view, because you can't "share" force power. You CAN share political power. "If I were Snoke, I'd be careful about letting someone know of me as a potential rival to their political power, because then they'd kill me so I don't take their power."
The bulk of this is pure conjecture. No offense, but I'm not going to entertain it.
As mentioned, I'm talking about what we actually *know* about the character... Not how powerful you *think* he is.
I...I don't think you're quite grasping what I've said here(repeatedly.)
Again, Snoke's psionic abilities were indeed powerful... But strong psionic abilities do not make him the most powerful *overall* force-user by default. Simple.
Cool. So that definitely makes Palpatine more powerful than Snoke *overall*, right? I mean, the *overall* force-abilities we've SEEN Palpatine display are far beyond what we've SEEN Snoke display, after all.
That he is a powerful force-user... But again, there is huge disparity between Snoke being a powerful force-user, and him being the most powerful force-user ever in canon... I don't think you're quite grasping that.
Your conclusion is based primarily on personal conjecture/opinion... Yet you're trying to sell it as incontrovertible canon fact. This is strange.
Exactly. IT HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED.
Lets not act like it is irrefutable evidence, until it's *actually* irrefutable evidence.
Rey and Ben both have huge potential(duh.) However, neither of them have really began tapping-into that potential to any significant extent, based on what we've seen. As of now, they'd BOTH get their asses handed to them by most noteworthy Jedi/Sith -- potential be damned.
Look at AotC Anakin: MASSIVE potential(far more than anyone else in his era), yet he was stomped by Dooku, despite having YEARS more formal training than Rey as a Padawan. As I said: untapped potential is irrelevant in a battle.
And Kanan's final showing in Rebels was one of the better canon feats as well. Doesn't change the fact that he was mediocre *overall*.
You're better than this.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Palpatine not having knowledge is a large part of his character too... hence the stories where he's always seeking more knowledge.
Look at Rebels for example where Ezra had knowledge he lacked. Ezra isn't more powerful than Palpatine and he knew an absolute huge secret. Sheev still tonguepunched his way into that dimension and almost bruteforced his way in. Somehow
What? What I listed was what we know he's done. If you're saying that it's just not known how powerful this makes him, especially by comparison, then I understand where you're coming from, but this isn't conjecture.
So you're arguing that his specialization in psionic powers don't necesarily mean that he's that powerful with every ability? I was using his psionic showings as a way to place his overall power. Because there's no reason to think that he's more powerful pisonically than he is in other areas.
In canon? Isn't Snoke's force bond between Kylo and Rey the single most powerful feat in canon? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that it was.
Okay, I'll drop the whole "what he did in the unknown regions" argument and stick to how he compares to Palpy, Luke, and whoever else I find he compares his abilities to.
On that, he is more powerful than TLJ Luke.
Maybe. But there's no way to know. I was under the impression that Rey and Kylo are just as powerful as prequel trilogy jedi. You seem to be under the impression that they're padawan level. I know my knowledge comes from feats in TLJ, but I don't know where your knowledge is coming from.
But that was one moment of oneness with the force. Rey did what she did unstrained, and could replicate it.
care to explain in more detail?
Last edited by Zentrex on Jun 10th, 2018 at 09:23 PM
Okay, but Ezra's ability to basically view any moment in all of space and time does make him a very powerful person, though his application of telekenesis and other force abilities may not be powerful.
Snoke, we know, has the knowledge of the foundation of the force and the "wellspring of the dark side". We've seen that he's a powerful force user and considering he's bringing abilities like suspending animation, causing people to fall asleep, mind probing (new to some extent), and psionic powers to the table, it makes sense that his ballyhooed "knowledge" was what made him so powerful.
So he's not like Ezra, in that he has more than just one trick that the emperor doesn't. He has POWER that the emperor doesn't.
And there's the whole thing with him contacting the emperor telepathically, and knowing exactly how it played out that day on the death star when the emperor died.
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Feats don’t nor have they ever proven who is superior to someone else. They are just exclusive feat. What does is how the powerful force users compare to each other.
Serkis Star,ted he’s more powerful. Like Skywalker marveled at Rey’s strength he didn’t say she’s some padawan loser. That’s just effeminate males upset that Snoke truly is power personified. Overpowering Rey which Kylo was unable to do to acquire her information and with ease is one helluva feat.
Snoke’s power is undeniable. The manner in which assiduous is killed is pitiful. He screamed and couldn’t overpower his one handed apprentice. Vader is weak as **** too.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Serkis flat out stated it. Why would Disney not create someone more powerful than Sidious ? Disney goes more powerful look at starkiller base. Rey, Kylo are extremely powerful as well and Snoke was ridiculously above them. Luke marveled at Rey’s strength. This is undeniable evidence.
Serkis is an actor with no control over the canon.
It's a lot different when a guy in charge of the novel or the director of the movie says something like when Russo said Thanos never would have snapped had Thor aimed for the head.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
He also worked with the directors and the story group who are all privy with Snoke’s abilities and overall canon.
Thor didn’t so who cares. Thor had a weapon the greatest one in his history capable of it but he failed. I already told you logically why it makes sense for Snoke to be more powerful with how Disney operates and his feats with the characters within the new trilogy but you’ll conveniently ignore it all and sidestep to Thanos which I never objected to in some weird defense of Snoke’s superiority.
He had knowledge that made him powerful, but that knowledge doesn't add up into being more powerful, simply more esoteric in nature... maybe.
Ezra had knowledge that allowed him to kill or save any person ever in time and Sheev still chased him out of it... physically.
Simply having knowledge doesn't make you more powerful than someone. Especially in Sheev's case. He is always learning new things, and it's a large part of his character. Just because he knows things that Sheev doesn't, that doesn't mean that he knows things that Sheev does.
Sheev literally punched through an unbreakable dimension and almost dragged his way in as his last feat. Snoke is going to need a lot more than assumptions to beat Sheev out as the top dog.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
So what? Do you think s going rogue and just being crazy.
The ig didn’t make Thanos invulnerable to attacks. The film clearly says it is capable of killing him. Quit with your comic nonsense the films are entirely different. I doubt you’ve even seen the film. Thanos prevailed. That’s what happened.
No, Yoda didn’t. I guess that one force lightning blast suggests something to you which is ridiculous. I guess you’re a feat guy forget everything else because let’s just obsess over your subjective feat interpretations.
They have already given us comparisons to make it clear he’s extremely powerful. He overpowered Rey someone Luke was scared of her raw strength. Luke Skywalker is someone Sidious even said was powerful enough to destroy him. Snoke is the top dog whether you want to admit it or not.
That's what I'm saying. Most of the 'feats' Snoke has are unquantifiable at this point.
You can't just make up the dots and then connect them however you want, man.
Yes.
Being powerful in one area doesn't necessarily mean he's equally as powerful in every area across the board.
In terms of psionic feats, yeah, he's up there.
Though I'd argue that Palpatine forcing his way into TWBW without a formal gateway is a far more impressive feat overall... The implications of that are just staggering.
I'm sure you have actual evidence to substantiate this claim?
Wait, so one good TK feat puts Rey on par with the noteworthy PT-era Jedi/Sith overall?
You think the likes of Kenobi, or Mace, or Dooku would have struggled with the Praetorian Guards as much as Rey and Kylo did..? C'mon.
Doesn't change anything. Seems like you're just [desperately] digging for reasons to try and make Rey seem more powerful than she actually was, just so you argue that Snoke was also more powerful by proxy.
You're better than this type of horridly skewed non-logic.
If you're asking for clarification, then you're not ready to hear it, tbh.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 10th, 2018 at 10:33 PM
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Galan once again ignored Luke’s words, disney’s M.o., Serkis’ words, and Snoke’s feats all because he likes Sidious more. If you were not so pathetic I’d expect an actual response but we both know you’re too emotionally weak to do so.
Jun 10th, 2018 02:14 PM
care to explain in more detail?
