Honest question: do you think liberals or conservatives do more harm to this country?
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Edit - I should clarify. This is not something you can have an opinion on and be right. Your opinion can be wrong on this topic because there's too much evidence of harm done to the nation, or preventative progress done to the nation by conservatives over the centuries.
Only when you use extremely dishonest and specific definitions of harm can you make the case that conservatives did less harm.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Aug 31st, 2018 at 10:07 PM
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
I knew you were liberal and would probably answer that way. I guess what I'm getting at is what this says about freedom. You think the side with the least free states is still overall less destructive.
EDIT: I'm not saying you are wrong.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Since my social beliefs are libertarian, naturally, my political beliefs would be opposed to most conservative beliefs and a significant portion of "American Liberals."
By the very definition of what it means to be a political conservative, they must oppose change. If they do not oppose change and progress, then they are not conservatives, by definition.
By the definition, they would have to do the greatest harm vis-a-vis the greatest amount of prevention of forward progress.
You just so happen to have chosen a question that will naturally, by the definition of the word, be answered in a way that you feel is negative towards conservatives.
It's one of those questions you shouldn't ask someone like me, man.
Liberal policies didn't help asian college applicants much.
The worst thing a conservative will do, is cut spending on safety net programs or avocate for corporate welfare.
Liberals, they come up with shit like "lifestyle payments" in divorce, laws that make it a crime to go after a guy stealing your car, and like stupid stuff that affects your joe average more..
So I guess conservatives are worse for the dirt poor, and liberals are worse for everyone else. Both are pretty equally good for the rich... "Too Big to Fail" happened under Obama, after all.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
It doesn't bother me because I feel true liberalism is indeed great. Conservatives can be shitbags and they have mostly adopted some of their positions(loving free speech) merely because the "liberals" we currently have shifted their own positions.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
One who opposes change can't really cause harm, though. Only by taking action, or trying to "improve" something, can you risk making it worse.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
If you view it a bit more fact based instead of with a subjective definition, then it would be the one who harmed forward progress away from harmful practices in addition to implementing policies that harmed. It's not one or the other: it must be both. We are using the political science word "conservative" and by excluding the primary purpose of what defines a conservative, you're missing the entire point. Divorce yourself from the conservative identify so it does not appear you must defend it. This is a topic that there's no wiggle room to debate.
Here, I'll use an analogy to make it easier to understand:
Premise: Current state is -10,000 and any state below 0 is harmful.
Group A: Prevented progress by 1,0000 units (retain -1000) and made progress by 10 units (+10)
Group B: Prevented progress by 10 units and made progress by 1,000 units (+1,000)
Result: Group A has conserved harm by -1,000 units. They are a net-negative on the harm being caused from any point beyond when the two measures were made.
Conclusion: Group A is more harmful than Group B.
You can disagree with the point I made. But it is not my point: it is facts. If you want to disagree more, then address these questions:
You're okay with things like Jim Crow Laws, Slavery, no rights voting rights for women? If you are, then you will not see conservatism as being harmful. You're wrong, of course. Because people were harmed by those.
Sorry, my arguments seem quite assholish but they are not intended to be. There's just not much middle ground so if I make the arguments, it will come off as me doing classic dadudemon stuff. But I don't intend to be. It's just that this topic doesn't leave much room for debate. Disagreeing with the facts I've mentioned (whether or not you and I choose to acknowledge these facts does not matter - arguing against them will not change them) out will automatically make you wrong and the more I explain why you are wrong, the more combative or the more it seems I am trying to humiliate you it will appear.
The things you mentioned, yes. Basic human rights are good changes.
The problem comes from good intentions turned into something not so good, like this recent push to criminalize criticizing Israel, and linking it with anti-semitism (Meaning you can go to jail for criticizing a Israel in the countries that adopt such measures..). Or more on the home front, a push for equal representation resulting in groups that are over represented, being cut off (Right now, Asian groups)
If there was an even handed, well thought out, carefully vetted process to "help people", then fine. But there often isn't... It's all politics, driven by interest groups, who frame the issues as "If you're against helping people, you're a bigot/evil person"
That is recipie unintended consequences, and stifled debate. Which is why I personally err towards a "do nothing" policy over "something must be done".
That's why I consider Gerald Ford one of the best presidents ever. Because he didn't do anything.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
There are plenty of stupid laws that were pushed, such as divorce settlements which require one to pay the former spouse a ridiculous amount of money in alimony or child support to match the lifestyle they were living before the divorce.
However, I will argue that these types of laws affect far fewer people than cutting funding for social programs like social security, SNAP, Section 8, and utilities assistance, which help many more people who are in critical need of them.
I often find myself taking the utilitarian approach to politics.
__________________
Last edited by Eternal Idol on Sep 1st, 2018 at 06:16 AM
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