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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Where has RotS Sidious matched Ziost?


Where has RotS Sidious matched Ziost?
Started by: Valkorion

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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne


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Before I respond, I need to ask a question: Are you arguing that Sidious being able to casually drain the populace of Byss gradually is more impressive than Vitiate consuming Ziost, its inhabitants, the fauna, etc, or that Vitiate choosing to kill the inhabitants of New Adasta conventionally before wholly consuming their spirits is proof that he can't gradually leech off of their energies without killing them? Because it sounds like you're trying to argue the latter, but you contradict that by stating that the death field is an expression of force drain, meaning that Tenebrae is able to kill and consume the entire planet with drain/without resorting to conventional weaponry first.


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 12:00 AM
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slayne
Revanite

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Canada


 

@Az

Just because Vitiate opted not to passively drain the inhabitants of Ziost doesn't mean he couldn't. Setting them against each other and reaping their souls from the carnage is a faster and more effective way to return to a state where he could decimate the planet than simply leeching off their essences at the pace of a snail.

As for him not being able to directly drain them, he (as you admit) death fields the planet (i.e draining them to a husk while they're still alive) immediately after growing strong enough to do so. So we can come to two conclusions:

a) Assuming we're taking your word for it, Vitiate's weakened state + the telepathy prohibited him from draining them all until he's consumed enough energy via setting them against each other

b) Vitiate could drain them in that state, but it wouldn't be enough to return him to full power as quickly as he needed. Therefore, he used the carnage to return to a state where he could simply drain them all to a husk as you describe.

Either way, you need more proof as to why he can't drain living beings other than "he didn't, therefore he couldn't."

edit: didn't see skillz's post. Restated most of his points here, but whatever.

Last edited by slayne on Sep 7th, 2018 at 02:29 AM

Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 02:26 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Earth


 

Food for thought:

Palpatine's method of Force Drain (not his invention) is designed to replenish a physical body. Tenebrae struck Ziost as a disembodied entity, and therefore had to employ different techniques to replenish himself.

Ziost was one of the major population centres back then. Tenebrae wasn't dealing with a small population base here.

Death field is one of the most difficult techniques to employ ever. Darth Bane had to draw power from a nearby nexus structure to pull it off, and he still found it incredibly difficult to retain. His sphere of energy was like 10 feet across.

Now try to comprehend what it takes to subject an entire planet to Death field - thousands of Force-users working in tandem and/or some kind of superweapon (Zildrog ???). Yet, Tenebrae pulled it off on his own.


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Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Sep 7th, 2018 at 03:33 AM

Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 03:20 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne


XSUPREMEXSKILLZ is online now!

I’d also like to make a forum-wide rule that Valkorion/Vitiate needs to be called Tenebrae from now on


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 03:44 AM
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Valkorion
Member

Registered: Sep 2018
Location:


 

lol if sidious could have mega-amped himself and ended physical aging he would've


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 04:39 AM
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Trocity
Senior Member

Registered: May 2012
Location:


 

Even without doing that, he still ended up more powerful than Valkorion(or at least as powerful).

Most impressive.


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 07:58 AM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Before I respond, I need to ask a question: Are you arguing that Sidious being able to casually drain the populace of Byss gradually is more impressive than Vitiate consuming Ziost, its inhabitants, the fauna, etc, or that Vitiate choosing to kill the inhabitants of New Adasta conventionally before wholly consuming their spirits is proof that he can't gradually leech off of their energies without killing them? Because it sounds like you're trying to argue the latter, but you contradict that by stating that the death field is an expression of force drain, meaning that Tenebrae is able to kill and consume the entire planet with drain/without resorting to conventional weaponry first.


There's no contradiction here. As I've said before, a death field is, while a variant of drain, still markedly different from the standard technique. Namely, the number of victims is wholly irrelevant to its potency; it's an area-of-effect ability that affects everyone caught in it regardless of the numbers. Vitiate casting it over the entire surface area of Ziost isn't an indication he could manually desiccate the entire population person-by-person simultaneously.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by slayne
@Az

Just because Vitiate opted not to passively drain the inhabitants of Ziost doesn't mean he couldn't. Setting them against each other and reaping their souls from the carnage is a faster and more effective way to return to a state where he could decimate the planet than simply leeching off their essences at the pace of a snail.

As for him not being able to directly drain them, he (as you admit) death fields the planet (i.e draining them to a husk while they're still alive) immediately after growing strong enough to do so. So we can come to two conclusions:

a) Assuming we're taking your word for it, Vitiate's weakened state + the telepathy prohibited him from draining them all until he's consumed enough energy via setting them against each other

b) Vitiate could drain them in that state, but it wouldn't be enough to return him to full power as quickly as he needed. Therefore, he used the carnage to return to a state where he could simply drain them all to a husk as you describe.

Either way, you need more proof as to why he can't drain living beings other than "he didn't, therefore he couldn't."

edit: didn't see skillz's post. Restated most of his points here, but whatever.


I'll ignore the points Skillz already made.

So essentially, as I understand it, your argument is predicated on the speed at which Vitiate grows stronger. What you fail to realize is that the two methods aren't mutually exclusive. The absolute fastest possible way for him to have regained his power would have been to do both: directly sap the people's life force while they're alive and consume the released spirits should they die. Yet I've never seen any evidence to indicate he did the former even though in conjunction with the latter it would have been quicker than solely doing the latter.

It was you who set the precedent that Vitiate's modus operandi depends on the pace at which his power would accumulate; that he would utilize the quickest method possible to revivify himself. The fact that he used an inferior method to the most efficient one is therefore an indication of his inability to use conventional drain to siphon the people's essences directly.


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2018 01:55 PM
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slayne
Revanite

Registered: Feb 2017
Location: Canada


 

@Az

quote:
So essentially, as I understand it, your argument is predicated on the speed at which Vitiate grows stronger. What you fail to realize is that the two methods aren't mutually exclusive. The absolute fastest possible way for him to have regained his power would have been to do both: directly sap the people's life force while they're alive and consume the released spirits should they die. Yet I've never seen any evidence to indicate he did the former even though in conjunction with the latter it would have been quicker than solely doing the latter.

Which makes sense, because your route isn't that sound in terms of efficiency. If Vitiate drained them while he possessed them, they'd most likely be too weak to kill each other after prolonged exposure - especially the Jedi and Sith, who would logically be his most powerful assets due to their abilities. He'd also have to massively restrict the amount of people he does this to given his limited Force reserves, which nets a pretty big loss in terms of power gained. It doesn't matter in the end if he gains power slightly faster if the victim count is pretty substantially reduced.

Old Post Sep 9th, 2018 12:16 AM
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