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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » How Do You Rate Snoke?


How Do You Rate Snoke?
Started by: victreebelvictr

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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I never said Sheev had guards to feign weakness, I asked the question of if he ever actually used them in place of himself doing the dirty work when someone confronts him.

And with Sheev we know he doesn't need them, with Snoke the guy is a cripple so he would have more use out of them than Sheev. Maybe both don't "need them", but Snokes are more certainly equipped to actually protect him (lightsaber resistant armor and weapons) than Sheev's are.


Like everything else on Snoke, it's based on feelings. Snoke's raw force powers do not mean his Guards get raised to the same level when they can do something that Snoke can't do; and that is engage in close quarters combat. Snoke could be 10 Sheevs in raw power and it still wouldn't raise the abilities of the Guards by proxy.
Let's back up a moment. I originally said (to someone other than yourself) "Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?" - you began responding to me from this point on. I said your response didn't answer my question. I answered your question, no, we have not seen Sidious employ his guards. You did not answer my question, despite engaging me in rhetoric.

How do we "know" Sheev doesn't need them? Doesn't need them for what exactly, and what is your evidence? He clearly needs them for something, unless he simply has them as extremely expensive, well trained sentient decorations. That Snoke's guards might be better does not mean he needs them any more than Sidious needs his own guards. That's like saying Snoke "needs" better military assets, ships, technology, soldiers and so on. It's less a matter of "need" and more a matter of "well, a better army is more preferable than to have a worse army", and in the same way, it is more preferable to have better guards than it is to have worse guards.

So like our other fine man said, the guards may simply compliment Snoke rather than only compensating for him. It is preferable to have guards than to have no guards at all.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:30 PM
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quanchi112
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Sidious guards attacked yoda or tried to and failed. This Sidious wank needs to stop. All guards are there to protect. That is their function.


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:36 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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An astute point, "quanchi112".

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:37 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
An astute point, "quanchi112".
I do believe Snoke had the superior guards but both sets of guards provided the same function at the discretion of their master.


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:39 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do believe Snoke had the superior guards but both sets of guards provided the same function at the discretion of their master.
Are you referring to any specific sets of guards, the guards on average, or not even the guards themselves but simply their equipment? And can you provide evidence for this claim, or is it just based on your feelings?

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:41 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Are you referring to any specific sets of guards, the guards on average, or not even the guards themselves but simply their equipment? And can you provide evidence for this claim, or is it just based on your feelings?
Praetorian guards as opposed to the royal guard. Red vs red. The fight against Kylo and Rey as compared to Yodas easy dismissal of the royal guards. Praetorian showed how capable they were against two extremely powerful force users. No evidence in the films of the royal guard being as capable in combat.


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:44 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Praetorian guards as opposed to the royal guard. Red vs red. The fight against Kylo and Rey as compared to Yodas easy dismissal of the royal guards. Praetorian showed how capable they were against two extremely powerful force users. No evidence in the films of the royal guard being as capable in combat.
This implies that Yoda and the Kylo-Rey team share a level of parity to make this comparison valid. Is there any evidence for this?

There is no evidence for the royal guards being as capable, true, but there is no evidence that they are not as capable. It is an unknown, unless the aforementioned comparison checks out.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 08:46 PM
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DarthPlaguis12
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Hmmmm

I think Vader would be a real danger to Snoke as he’s such a tank and Snoke can’t fight.

I also think Snokes way stronger then Vader in the force but as I said...Snoke has many disadvantages.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:00 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Hmmmm

I think Vader would be a real danger to Snoke as he’s such a tank and Snoke can’t fight.

I also think Snokes way stronger then Vader in the force but as I said...Snoke has many disadvantages.

Is there any evidence that Snoke "can't fight"? Or that Snoke is "way stronger" than Vader?

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:02 PM
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DarthPlaguis12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?

Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards?


Idk abought feigning weakness but the fact Vader and Sidious were sith was NOT known through tout the empire, he did trust the imperial guards enough to see him use the force.

Also....in the book lords of the sith, while Vader and two imperial guards were struggling to fight a nest of indigenous beasts, Sidious was laughing his ass off killing them effortlessly.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:03 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
This implies that Yoda and the Kylo-Rey team share a level of parity to make this comparison valid. Is there any evidence for this?

There is no evidence for the royal guards being as capable, true, but there is no evidence that they are not as capable. It is an unknown, unless the aforementioned comparison checks out.
Well I saw even yoda required the aid of Kenobi against clone troopers. I see no reason to believe yoda could solo these praetorians alone based off Yodas film history.

They have superior showings so more evidence leads us to believe they are superior than anyone not even citing the Star Wars visual dictionary references of their formidability.


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:05 PM
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Zenwolf
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It's very simple.

Snoke has a hard time walking around due to injures sustained, this is confirmed. So his Guards do his melee fighting for him. So his Guards are needed in that aspect.

Palps can fight both melee and Force combat, this is shown. So he doesn't need his Guards, I'm pretty sure this is also noted somewhere in the current canon as it was before the wipe too. Sure his Guards are functional and can do fighting for him, but they aren't needed.

Ok...so we got that cleared up? Now back to the thread at hand.


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Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:06 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Idk abought feigning weakness but the fact Vader and Sidious were sith was NOT known through tout the empire, he did trust the imperial guards enough to see him use the force.

Also....in the book lords of the sith, while Vader and two imperial guards were struggling to fight a nest of indigenous beasts, Sidious was laughing his ass off killing them effortlessly.
Again, this does not satisfy the criteria I asked for, which you rightly acknowledge.

Would you be kind enough to post the specific excerpt from Lords of the Sith you are referring to, that we may review it and draw a conclusion on the utility of Sidious' guardsmen?

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:06 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Is there any evidence that Snoke "can't fight"? Or that Snoke is "way stronger" than Vader?


Yes...he’s crippled and he needs his guards.

Can he fight? Yes he owned Kylo and Rey but that was using the force.

Not sure if he can ragdoll Vader like he did those two newbs.

Proof he’s way stronger then Vader? Yes, I don’t believe Vader could perform force feats from light years away like Snoke or Sidious could, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:08 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Again, this does not satisfy the criteria I asked for, which you rightly acknowledge.

Would you be kind enough to post the specific excerpt from Lords of the Sith you are referring to, that we may review it and draw a conclusion on the utility of Sidious' guardsmen?


Utility? They were his bodyguards, look it up in wookiepedia

I don’t think he was ever feigning weakness, I’m just saying no one outside a very small circle knew he was a Sith Lord

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:11 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Yes...he’s crippled and he needs his guards.

Can he fight? Yes he owned Kylo and Rey but that was using the force.

Not sure if he can ragdoll Vader like he did those two newbs.

Proof he’s way stronger then Vader? Yes, I don’t believe Vader could perform force feats from light years away like Snoke or Sidious could, please correct me if I’m wrong.
So he simultaneously can't fight but can fight using the Force? It seems you have contradicted yourself. You would not be the first and I doubt you will be the last.

Well, Darth Vader has choked people from light years distance away.

https://youtu.be/T-NvFIK_beQ?t=96

What has Snoke done from light years away that proves he is "way stronger" than Vader?

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:13 PM
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BestDebaterEver
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Utility? They were his bodyguards, look it up in wookiepedia

I don’t think he was ever feigning weakness, I’m just saying no one outside a very small circle knew he was a Sith Lord
Yes, but we must decide how useful they were as guardsmen, or if they were merely superfluous. If you incapable of or unwilling to provide evidence for your claims, I will not think less of you for retreating.

What does that have to do with the debate at hand? He either needed the guards for something or he did not.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:15 PM
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DarthPlaguis12
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Bro he’s crippled, how can he fight? It’s in the official dictionary. He can’t jump around and use a saber etc like Yoda and Sidious

What about that don’t you get?

Where has he choked people from light years away? I don’t recall.

He’s choked people from light years away, created the bond between kylo and Rey again...light years away.

He spoke to Sidious from the unknown regions, he read people’s minds, etc. he could rip info from peoples minds

From what I know Vader could not rip info from people’s minds, read them in that level, create force bonds.

Etc etc etc

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:18 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Yes, but we must decide how useful they were as guardsmen, or if they were merely superfluous. If you incapable of or unwilling to provide evidence for your claims, I will not think less of you for retreating.

What does that have to do with the debate at hand? He either needed the guards for something or he did not.


Who is we? You’re not the OP. why am I even talking to you. If you don’t know anything about Star Wars then go read up.

I gave you an answer, I’m not obligated to even acknowledge your newb ass.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:20 PM
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ares834
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Sheev’s guard were obviously superfluous. Anyone who was actually a threat to Sidious in combat would be capable of defeating the guards with utter ease as shown, ironically enough, in Quan’s gif.

Old Post Oct 18th, 2018 09:20 PM
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