Considering an exhausted and probably injured Malgus managed to survive the explosion of the space station, capable to desintegrate entire fleets, and somehow to also survive the hazards of outer space before his body was recovered - you might be correct.
@Ap Az addressed this, Vader was always behind Sidious but only the current version, nothing suggests he was always behind every version of Sidious. He was 80% of the emperor after all.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
No, Lucas states that from Mustafar onwards, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor and was more like Maul and Dooku. He isn't only speaking about the events of RotS either as he also references how this remains true through to RotJ, where he seeks to replace Vader with Luke as Luke has the potential where Vader lost it permanently on Mustafar.
Vader never touched RotS Sidious levels again.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
For the love of God, read and comprehend:
He's referring to the entirety of Vader's apprenticeship to Sheev. It's also far from the only quote on the matter, but it's a Lucas quote. Thus, the most important.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
If RotJ Sidious > RotS Sidious and Vader "is more like Maul or Dooku", then, obviously, he can't, in effective terms, be close to the Emperor in power - regardless of what "80% of Sidious" might mean.
Exactly how high does one need to be to actually think that Lucas was referring to actualized power and not potential in that quote when comparing Vader to Dooku and Maul?
LMAO. Why the **** would Lucas say Vader's potential power is now like the imaginary potential power of Maul or Dooku - a statement with no meaning because we have no knowledge on their potential power? Rather than, you know, saying Vader's no longer as powerful than the Emperor, and that instead his powers are like Maul and Dooku seen in the films.
That aside, it's also clear Lucas isn't alluding to any tremendous gap between ROTS and ROTJ Sidious either.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Oct 22nd, 2018 at 01:50 PM
The thing that is the whole point of the entire passage is and what Lucas wanted to convey is that
Vader can never surpass the Emperor
That is it and now coming to the details
He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn’t as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn’t what he was supposed to become.
Now, people, let common sense take over. What could Lucas possibly mean by saying that from "then on" he wasn't as strong as the emperor?
Why would Lucas make a blanket statement saying and using the phrase "from then on" to compare the power of Vader and the Emperor? Obviously the phrase itself is used to compare and contrast the relative strengths of the two combatants with the passage of time, and to establish that the relationship between their respective powers( in that Vader will always be inferior to Sidious) never changes with the passage of time?
Shocker It is almost like Lucas is trying to say, by saying that with the passage of time, that Vader is inferior to Sidious, that that basic fact never changes? Almost like he is trying to say that Vader's potential is inferior to that of Sidious's?
Mind blown
But yeah, it's almost like Lucas has ascribed a certain fixed value to Vader's powers in that even 19 BBY broken and battered and a newbie Vader, a complete stranger to the ways of the Sith has power comparable to the likes of Count Dooku or Darth Maul , or at least, brilliant Darthant has it already concluded so. Even more, that Vader's powers do not increase significantly over the course of more than 2 decades of intensive immersion in the dark side and being trained extensively by Sidious in the ways of the Sith. No, 19 BBY Vader is comparable in power to ROTJ Vader and we have to interpret the quote to mean only this rather than recognize the basic fact that Maul and Dooku were never meant to surpass Sidious too( at least at that time), and that Vader's potential is what is being compared with the likes of Maul and Dooku, not his actualized power?
From then on, he wasn’t as strong as the Emperor
From then on, he was like Count Dooku or Darth Maul
Let us also recognize that George Lucas around the time he made this comment also line edited the ROTS novel where it is made clear that
Mustafar Vader>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>19 BBY Suit Vader
In retrospect, interpreting the quote to mean actualized power instead of potential, even letting aside the rant, one would have to follow through with these conclusions:
19 BBY Vader is comparable in power or ability to Maul or Dooku
Vader doesn't grow vastly more powerful over the course of more than 2 decades despite starting out knowing literally nothing about the ways of the Sith and completely shunning the ways of the Jedi
All the quote itself says is that Anakin was in-line to be the Sidious+ level apprentice Sidious wanted all along, but after Obi-Wan gimped him there was no chance of that ever happening - he'd end up more Maul or Dooku level.
By demonstrated feats (Anakin raping Dooku versus Vader being raped by Luke) this appears to be the case.
Lucas is talking about the finished product Vader had become, in reference to the (then) finished trilogies. He isn't making a chronological narration of Anakin's trajetory but merely a recollection of events from the perspective of the finished material.
Oct 21st, 2018 11:54 PM
