You seem to take the Exar Kun quotes as binding though. Likewise, you take Ragnos > Nihilus as binding even though Nihilus has quite obviously greater feats. I don't think you've been very consistent in determining when you accept accolades and when you don't. If you're using a feats >>>>>> accolades paradigm, there's absolutely no way you take Ragnos > Nihilus seriously.
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I don't see how this comic proves Muur has parity with ANH Vader. The talisman's "power to stop Vader" is by turning all the Stormtroopers into Rakghouls. It's not like Muur directly attacked Vader and was shown to be in his level. Heck, kind of the opposite. Morne releases the power of the amulet, and Vader just stands there unaffected. Just because Celeste Morne believes Muur has the "power to stop Vader," this is not even remotely proof that Muur>=Vader. All it shows is that the Sith Alchemy provided by his talisman is enough to stall Vader long enough for Morne to escape certain death.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
I take them as binding because they're reinforced in OOU Legends sources and the overall narratives of TOTJ, JAT and SofP.
But no Marka Ragnos' spirit's restoration requiring a dozen times more power than it takes to channel the power to ragdoll an armada of Star Destroyers is pretty concretely > Darth Nihilus.
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Ffs, forget being 'comparable' to Vader, Muur sh!ts all over him. The whole 'I could overthrow Palpatine with the Talisman's power' and 'Muur would be like a new Master to me' obviously implies a massive gap in power. Vader's improvement couldn't have been drastic either, since he's only Luke-level by RotJ.
Kun scales easily above him, and therefore stomps the fvck out of Vader as well.
'Likely' according to you, but not Lucas; Dooku > RotS Kenobi >/= Old Ben >> Vader = RotJ Luke. Not that Maul, Obi-Wan or even Dooku are on Kun's level anyway.
Since when is Vader's personal fears and speculation irrefutable fact? Does this mean you also think ESB Luke>RotS Anakin because Vader thought Luke was more powerful than Anakin in Shadows of the Empire?
Let's face it, the one time the power of the Muur Talisman was used against Vader, it did nothing to him. So objectively speaking, Vader>The Muur Talisman.
Heck, why are we even arguing this? The Muur Talisman=/=Muur himself. The whole point of Sith talismans, amulets, gauntlets, and other artifacts is that they make the user far more powerful than they would otherwise be. For example, Naga Sadow does not have the power to destroy suns on his own. But with the power of his ship, any force sensitive has the power to do so. Exar Kun could not kill the Sith Wyrm on his own. But with Naga Sadow's amulet and the power of the Yavin IV temple, he blasted a hole straight through it.
So even if the Muur Talisman made Vader powerful enough to overthrow Palpatine (which would only require raising Vader's power 25-30%, based off of Vader being 80% of Sheev), this doesn't mean Muur himself>Vader by any stretch of the imagination.
@Underachiever59
Lmao, we shouldn't need these mental gymnastics to find an answer, when we're already given one in the comic. Your grasping at straws is ****ing hilarious, since it has absolutely nothing to do with irrational fear or speculation. Vader admits inferiority upon sensing the Talisman, which means Muur's more powerful than himself - by a large margin. This isn't based on hearsay or hype, this is Vader sensing the power and admitting he's far weaker.
25-30% is the minimum required, but it doesn't mean the Talisman is limited to only that percentage. If we're talking power in relation to the Emperor, the numbers would look something more like this; Vader 80% Muur 90%. Keep in mind Vader's 80% would be more like; 80,000,000,000 to the Emperors 100,000,000,000 with Muur being around 90,000,000,000. Vader's an equal to RotJ Luke, who can't even touch Palpatine.
So your evidence for the Talisman =/> Wielder is the fact that they become more powerful when using them? And then to support your case of Muur = Muur Talisman, you use Naga Sadow's Meditation Sphere blowing up stars? An amulet isn't a ship, completely different 'artefact' and scale. It doesn't even matter if Muur is only as powerful as his Talisman, because that's still far more powerful than Vader.
Facts:
- Vader sensed the power of the Muur Talisman, and deemed it to be sufficient enough to overthrow Sheev.
- He also believed it to be so much greater than himself, that he would end up being Muur's Apprentice.
Speculation:
- It was all just fear.
- Talismans >/= Wielders (Irrelevant regardless)
Luke is confirmed to be equal to someone who is 80% of Sidious's powers, he is atleast on their tier. If you are going to take Luca's words as canon then you have to acknowledge that 80% quote.
KEK at you using outdated quotes. Old Ben was also stated to have gotten weaker yet per Lucas himself was on Sidious's tier. We have a multitude of quotes stating Sidious grew more powerful after ROTS.
So ANH Sidious>>ROTS Sidious>>>>>>>ROTS Kenobi>ANH Sidious>Old Ben>>>>>>Vader.
KEK, that's utterly ludicrous.
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Dec 7th, 2018 12:12 AM
An amulet isn't a ship, completely different 'artefact' and scale. It doesn't even matter if Muur is only as powerful as his Talisman, because that's still far more powerful than Vader.
