So Jane Thor matching Odin is a terrible showing for Odin, Thor and Hyperion hurting Beyonders makes them/Beyonders trash but a powerless Superman beating up a supposedly skyfather is a high showjng for Superman? KMC at its finest.
Retcons like these are useful because it makes it easier to make sense of the mess that's the Marvel cosmos and contest head-canon models that cherry-pick and abuse abandoned concepts.
It wasn't too long ago I saw the "Cube Beings have infinie power, and Celestials have even greater infinite powers," argument with the scan from Fantastic Four Annual #26 attatched.
Now we know that the Adaptoids, Cube Beings, Beyonders are just as powerful as the Celestials, and as of Time Runs Out could wipe out all of Marvel.
In fantastic four annual 26 Kubik speculates that the celestials come from a realm beyond the multiverse and that it is possibly the same realm as the Beyonders. Now that it is known that the Beyonders are creations of the Celestials, I guess the speculation that Kubik made 30 years ago starts to make sense and both Celestials and Beyonders come from the second cosmos and the second cosmos or the remnants of the second cosmos is what was previously known as the Beyond realm? https://imgur.com/I8Uumao
The Celestials were created in the First Cosmos which they also destroyed. The Celestials created the Omega Men in the Second Cosmos. But with the exception of the Beyonder who was introduced to the universe through Molecule Man's use of power I don't think that the Omega Men were ever supposed to be unaware of their origins.
Either way the Riddle of the Celestials chapter adds anything to the mythos that hasn't been contradicted, so there's no point in referencing it.
Just trying to connect some things, Ewing seems to be versed in the old stories, so the beyond realm is actually the second cosmos...it seems that unlike in the past, now Beyonder implied that there are realms where even he is not powerful enough and that the white hot room is a higher dimension.
You can certainly draw connections between the two but they're not necessarily that useful. The references to older stories are slightly altered and represented in a new context that's not avalible in the older books.
It might be the case that the Phoenix has greater powers, or more likely that the Beyonder will have a limited access to his powers in the White Hot Room, but don't know that yet.
But it's important to note that the Omega Men we saw used finite incarnations of themselves. That's why Loki could mess around with them through his narrative manipulation and why the Blue Marvel could blow a hole in the head of one of them with anti-matter.
Last edited by Astner on Aug 25th, 2022 at 06:10 AM
Late to the party, but Defenders: Beyond #2 was pretty good. It was interesting to see Ewing go full-meta at times, but he pulled it off pretty well, imo.
The Beyonder was still a "Beyonder" under Hickman as well -- but he was just a "child unit" back in SW(which is mentioned in this issue.) He's apparently all grown up now, though still clearly unstable to some extent(the other Beyonders even refer to him as "The Broken One".) But the revelation that the Celestials actually created the Beyonders as fail-safes is... Interesting?
The WHR evidently sits "beyond the beyond", so I won't at all be surprised if it is revealed that the PF > Beyonders.
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