Eh I really don't think they should have went with this, they could have just say she died. But I dunno...I feel like the scene won't really make a whole lot of sense.
I think recasting an iconic character at the 11th hour because the actress died would be so much more jarring than unused footage ever would be. The concept of recasting is generally fine, but depending on the age/recognition of the character/franchise, you risk pulling a great deal of your audience out of the illusion (a terrible CG effect would do the same thing), plus you risk the understandable backlash from audience feeling that it's a disservice to the collective memory of that actress as that character.
The cost:benefit ratio for recasting Leia for this movie skews heavily toward cost (fan alienation, critical backlash) that would hit Disney's wallet hard. In the inevitable prequels to the sequels (sprequels) casting a new actress would sit better, though hopefully they just never touch the OT trio ever again.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Yeah there would be major backlash. I just feel story should come first.
And if Carrie wasnt able to finish then let someone else take her character arc to a satisfying conclusion. Instead forcing scenes through unused footage.
Agree on not touching the OT trio again after this.
Last edited by Darth Thor on May 29th, 2019 at 12:51 PM
Most of the time I'd agree that story is more important. But just as important for a fantasy film is suspension of disbelief, and like it or not, consistency of character across installments is a part of that--both in characterization and appearance. We'd rightfully balk at Rey appearing with a huge facial scar or prosthetic arm that goes unexplained, and if Daisy Ridley suffered that in real life, they'd most likely utilize CGI to cover it up and/or integrate into the next movie's plot, a la Mark Hamill's car crash scars being attributed to Wampa attack.
So doing something like that with a deceased actor is also on the table--unless of course people feel it's a "betrayal" of Fisher or whatever. It's not. She filmed those unused scenes,that's really her, they're not CGI. If they can be utilized appropriately, I say go for it. Whatever feels like the least jarring option that maintains the illusion---bad CG or a new actress for an iconic character would break that effect.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Last edited by Lord Lucien on May 29th, 2019 at 08:58 PM
Why not use the unused footage, off-screen death for X reason, and then a funeral? The FO and Resistance have temporary ceasefire for Kylo to be at the funeral. (A bit different, but Caedus was at Mara Jade's funeral IIRC.) That could drive the plot forward with Kylo interacting with Rey afterwards.
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Off-screen deaths of old and beloved characters need to be handled realllly well. It's usually safer just to quietly retire them a la Paul Walker. The character doesn't have to die, and the fans can enjoy them getting to live in peace.
A funeral though... hrrrm. Star Wars is generally fast-paced and emotionally easy. A funeral (especially for a beloved character) is a heavy theme and needs to be earned--which an offscreen death wouldn't really do here.
And a big LOL at the Supreme Leader of the Evil Empire that killed billions, willingly and peacefully attending the funeral for the mother he was prepared to let die on a ship or incinerate with a laser ram. And the Resistance actually inviting him... talk about the tonal whiplash and sudden nonsenical about turns on character motivations. Imagine Finn and Rey and Poe and the other surviving Resistance members just standing around while their #1 deadly enemy reads a eulogy for the wife of the father he murdered.
The dynamic and context was completely different. Nobody but Ben knew Jacen was the killer, and the collective attending party weren't actively at war and attempting to eliminate one another. What you're proposing is more akin to the brutal and simple minded SS stopping their war of conquest and enslavement so that Heinrich Himmler can attend the funeral service for the Russian partisan leader... it'd be nonsense and nobody involved would ever agree to it.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Last edited by Lord Lucien on May 30th, 2019 at 05:05 AM
In Paul Walker's case, they had a decent in-universe reason. He has a kid, and is better off being retired. Plus they got his brother as a stand-in to play his final scenes. How would they justify Leia walking away? Her son and the Resistance is all that she has left.
There have been several funerals in the films. Qui-Gon, Shmi, Padme, the pyre for Anakin. Those were all on-screen deaths of course, but I think an off-screen death could be tastefully done too.
It wouldn't play out like that obviously if it happened. More like Kylo demanding that he be there, and a shaky ceasefire ensues. And no grand eulogy speech either.
This is mom though, not just some high-ranking Resistance official. Kylo is running the show, so if he wants to go see his mom, nobody in the FO is going to stop him. This is going to be a film where said Henrich Himmler has a strong probability of saving the day and becoming redeemed anyway. Something like this would push him towards that path.
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If a different dynamic had been established, or a different characterization, then yes, something like that could have worked. But the last two movies established Kylo Ren as a parent-murdering, angry, brutal nihilist. To have him declaring a momentary peace with his nearly-defeated enemies in order to quietly attend the funeral of the other parent (that he very nearly killed anyway--once on purpose and a bunch by incident) is a complete rewrite of his character.
It would be IDEAL, but requires the previous films to be rewritten to make it work. Tone and character consistency is very important, and the reasoning behind this scenario you're imagining doesn't jive with what's been established.
And that's just Kylo. We'd have to rewrite Rey, Poe, and Finn for it to fit with their characters as well. These are people intent on killing or confronting Kylo--having them attend a funeral together would be character-backward and terrible for the plot (srsly, this will also slow down the pace of the entire last entry of our action-packed space war movie). And all for the sake of justifying NOT using prefilmed footage of a deceased actress in character.
An extremely complicated and unnecessary procedure to fix a non-issue.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
That parent-murdering, angry, brutal nihilist basically has a romantic subplot with the main character, and is going to be redeemed next film. TLJ and TROS are undoubtedly going to white-wash this character.
Kylo obviously still cares for his mom. He doesn't shoot at her when presented with the direct choice, and is shook when the other fighters did the job.
How it could play out: Kylo would sense his mother is dying/dead. He's shook. Rey is shook. That reopens the Force DMs. Kylo then demands to be there.
And if Leia dies a year later, that would be enough time for the Resistance to have regained soldiers after Luke's heroics were made known across the galaxy.
I'm saying to use the current footage....BUT it would be extremely difficult to justify Leia peacing out of the rest of the movie considering all she has is her son and the Resistance.
Kylo is going to end up teaming up with Rey and co. if Palps is in fact the big evil boss at the end. An initial interaction here could set up for that later in the film.
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Bought the Vanity Fair issue covering this movie - they do this every time a new episode is on the horizon. Abrams makes the same statements he made four years earlier making Episode VII, about the importance of shooting on location, shooting on film, and doing so much of it practically etc. I appreciate his work on these films a lot, but if I could send him a message it would be to remind him that the whole time George Lucas had this series, he was pushing technology and making breakthroughs. He did so much practically in the first trilogy because there was no other way to get what he wanted on screen. So much of modern movie making is due to his commitment to tech development and improving the way we see and hear movies. You don't move forward, you stay stagnant.
But maybe this is just part of the party line the new regime at Lucasfilm has been saying for years, simply because the style of the prequels was divisive for fans & media. Lucas wanted to rework the way to do movies, to control it as much in post production as possible, to make it the way a painter does their canvas. It made the prequels more beautiful looking but to some, more sterile and obviously digitally generated. So the mantra has been to stay far away from the prequel style, but you can overdo this 'real world' grit style to the point of ugliness (see Solo: A Star Wars Story.)
It's like they don't even want to acknowledge the prequels going forward. Galaxy's Edge is opening at Disneyland - I'd like it to include places like Coruscant, Naboo, Felucia, maybe even Kamino, but no. It's all the dredgy corners of the galaxy, and the only ship that matters is the Falcon.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
What the f*ck... ew, no. Do people only remember the space battle in RotS when they talk about how good the CGI in these films is supposed to be? Every time I think of the CGI in these I conjure up images of the obvious TPM green screens and cartoonish textures. Or Dexter Jettser, or the Kaminoans. Or the Playstation cutscenes of the Clone Troopers on Geonosis. Why do the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park or the T-1000 from T2 look as good or better than the PT? The PT isn't visually beautiful--it's ugly at the worst of times, decent at the best of times, and green screen with people sitting on a couch most of the other times.
Those are two extremes with no room for wiggling--which is a dumb way of approaching it. You can have visually impressive and real looking without being gritty and grim---just look to that other Disney property, Marvel, for inspiration.
Good looking and convincing special effects in a major sci-fi/fantasy aren't impressive anymore--they're expected. Gone are the days when FX "made the movie". It's not enough anymore. Lucas himself famously said in the 80's that special effects are not a means to an end, they're just a tool to tell a story (though he also infamously forgot that he said that).
Story/characters/pacing/emotional tone>>>>>>>>special effects. Some people's f*cking priorities, Jesus Christ...
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Last edited by Lord Lucien on Jun 17th, 2019 at 05:57 AM
The prequels are indeed beautiful looking, for their time.
I would say a few things here and there didn't age so well, but in general, I agree. The beauty of those films is in part due to the magic of visual story telling that Lucas does so well.
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